Vintage Thunderbird Club International

I think if there was an active recruitment or a section about general tips and information relating to modification it could help that section.
It seems that frustration with the lack of modification response and exchange is expressed by memebrs in the forum.

A way to help this would be to reach out to drivers and enthusiasts in person at events that you meet up with as well as informing members of other online communities such as layitlow and other sites that this community is available. cross pollination never hurt.

Sorry to say this but most people who own the older generation of Thunderbirds and are passionate about them don't really like to modify them much from stock. It is something that I have noticed in general and at shows themselves. I would do some modifications if I had the money. :D

If it were me, I?d remove the modified section entirely and boost the activity in the current ?non-modified? forums by opening up those forums for modified AND stock discussion. I took a look at the modified section and the 61-63 seems to be the most active ? but that?s a bit like saying Betty White is the youngest living Golden Girl. I looked at the topics and we?re not talking anything radical here ? you could probably bucket 80% of the threads into one of 7 subjects ? Wheels / Tires, Brake Mods, Ride Height, Carburetors, Transmissions, Alternators on generator-equipped cars and maybe a splash of Exhaust discussion ? that?s basically it. And virtually all of that is considered marginally modified anyway with the rest of the car remaining stock. Few people are trying to shoe-horn in a Chevy 502, or install a 6-speed manual from a 07 Vette?.Nobody that I can see is chopping or channeling, adding a blower, trying to run slicks, tubbing, looking to French-in a headlight or shave a door handle. In many respects, I wouldn?t consider my car ?modified? per-say. Sure by the strictest definition it is, but rather I see it is ?upgraded? and somewhat ?improved? for today?s world ? i.e. disks, dual M/C, radial tires, etc. There doesn?t seem to be a mass interest in major modification, it?s really more upgrades and improvements ? and why not have that in with stock discussions ? in the majority of cases the car under discussion will be 90% stock?.except perhaps for its safer brakes and bigger wheels.

Ultimately, and perhaps more importantly, it seems like the same people that answer the threads anyway - so why make them patrol two forums to do it?

I like that idea Treozen. There really are very few post in the modified section and truth be known, there's just as many on the non-modified section because no one wants to post in a forum that get no responses.
I would go out on a limb here and say that a very large percentage of T-bird owners are not religious about keeping a perfectly stock car but want something that's fun, reliable to drive and fun to work on.

I like that idea Treozen.

I like it too. For truly slow traffic, though, you only have to look at the forums for model years 67 and up. Could it be that the lack of traffic in both areas is related?

I've always been partial to the 'birds from the 80's and 90's and long thought about doing something pro-street-- low and fast--with one of them. (Yeah, dating myself there.) Based on the number of posts here (Zero in some cases!), I'd have to think that this is not the place to get help and support with a project like that.

We need to attract folks with later model cars, stock or not, to keep the club growing. Having the modified section separate and low on the page gives the appearance of disapproval (or at lease unimportance). Combining both sections makes the forum easier to navigate and may help to recruit new members.

~Steve

My opinion, whether you all like it or not:

Keep modified and original separate.

Why? Those of us who have Obsessive Concours Disorder (OCD) prefer the simplicity of not having restoration questions being intermixed with the latest "who sells headers that fit," disc brake/dual master cylinder, air suspension and "what wagon-wheel/rubber band tire/rim protector size/offset fits" threads. This makes searches through Fourm threads much easier and helps to keep like things somewhat organized.

Mind you all, I am not anti-Modification: I am interested in assisting people with their ongoing maintenance, restoration and preservation efforts. I do not think a separate listing for modification items is detrimental - the fact of the matter is that bandwidth being expended on such topics is a subset of the whole picture. Many major clubs have employed the modification segregation tactic (those of you who frequent the Lincoln Forum are well aware of this).

The VTCI Forum is not The Ford Barn or the HAMB (both of which I frequent religiously every evening) for a good reason: it is focused solely on Ford Thunderbirds. Helping break up topic groups allows us to focus on those eras and genres that interest us.

Now that I've spoken my peace, I'll go back in the corner and put some popcorn in the microwave...

There are other vehicle specific sites like the Diesel P/U truck sites that mix it up though and they work well.
Not a biggy to me. One of the things I truly enjoy about this site is there's never a need for pop corn.
(Hmm.. Maybe alcohol but never pop corn.)

Hmm.. Maybe alcohol but never pop corn.)

Someone want to join me with a Manhatten??

My opinion, whether you all like it or not:

Keep modified and original separate.

Why? Those of us who have Obsessive Concours Disorder (OCD) prefer the simplicity of not having restoration questions being intermixed with the latest "who sells headers that fit," disc brake/dual master cylinder, air suspension and "what wagon-wheel/rubber band tire/rim protector size/offset fits" threads. This makes searches through Fourm threads much easier and helps to keep like things somewhat organized.

Mind you all, I am not anti-Modification: I am interested in assisting people with their ongoing maintenance, restoration and preservation efforts. I do not think a separate listing for modification items is detrimental - the fact of the matter is that bandwidth being expended on such topics is a subset of the whole picture. Many major clubs have employed the modification segregation tactic (those of you who frequent the Lincoln Forum are well aware of this).

The VTCI Forum is not The Ford Barn or the HAMB (both of which I frequent religiously every evening) for a good reason: it is focused solely on Ford Thunderbirds. Helping break up topic groups allows us to focus on those eras and genres that interest us.

Now that I've spoken my peace, I'll go back in the corner and put some popcorn in the microwave...

I?m going to offer a counter opinion ? I think your rational could stand well (and might in other forums) if the circumstances at the VTCI forum supported it, but in my opinion, they really don?t. For example, I accept the idea that there is a desire for simplicity in the non-modified forum, but reject, with admitted prejudice, the idea that admitting ?modified? posts would somehow endanger that simplicity. I reject it primarily because simplicity you desire in the non-modified forum does not currently exist. I took a look at the last months posts in the 61-63 non-modified forum (using last post-date as the cut-off and 61-63 as it seems the most popular) and in all there were 46 threads, of which, only 6 were even remotely related? meaning that the other 87% were threads on entirely unique and differing topics ? ranging from the color of a bolt head to the noise made by the windshield wipers. Such a wide array of topics is the exact opposite of the simplicity you suggest ? the topics literally range over very part of the car - from the technical to comical and obscure. The grand sum total of posts in the same time period from the 61-63 ?modified? section was 6?..6! Amongst an existing pool of 40 completely unrelated posts, would 6 more unrelated posts spoil the simplicity? - Assuming we agree such simplicity in exists in the first place, and we don?t. For completeness sake I look at the next most popular ?modified? forum?it had all of 2 threads just waiting to spoil the broth. I?d likely agree if the non-modified forum was actually a ?Concours Restoration? forum ? where the topics were specific and precise to Concours-styled restoration and exacting standards ? there you?d have a case and strong likelihood of achieving some level of simplicity / consistency in the threads because the scope of acceptable posts would be far narrower. With that in mind, I also dispute the idea that keeping the forums separate aids in searching through forum threads, since as already stated, 6 additional threads would hardly clutter up the search results.

Finally ? I also reject the idea that a separate ?modified? forum has no detrimental effect ? the detrimental effect is in fact apparent and is the very reason this thread itself exists. Without the traffic of a more popular forum, like the non-modified forums, interest and appetite to post dwindles and the forum fails to ever reach and maintain that ?critical mass? of sustained posters and responders necessary to keep it alive.

All that said, I respect the hell out of your opinion. Can I have some of your popcorn?

Well here is another opinion from one that does like the modified section.

When first joining this site I had a couple of questions that were answered very politely and in general very helpful and welcoming. Not at all what I am use to from an internet forum. Then asked about an overdrive tranny and got no response. 2 weeks later I made comment to this and pissed people off in 11 countries. Not many replied but the pm,s were coming in like crazy out of the public eye. I was corrected and told to post in the modified section. I was also told to drop a Cummins diesel in it If wanted gas milage. Along with several unhappy comment between the range of extremes. Afterwards my odd questions have been more widely accepted.

It opened my eyes to the purist that want concourse restorations. These are the ones that will be offended if you combine the 2 sub forums. I also have a post in there about weight savings. 22 replies but over 2000 people have read it. Not every one using the forum will reply. A little separation is not a bad thing, it give a something for everybody vibe and that is what promotes growth.

A little late, but VTCI is dedicated to Thunderbirds, and VTCI officials stage their own events worldwide. At these events, judging is critical, with several classes.
If I understand correctly, and speaking generally, almost everything that wasn't on a Tbird, or at least a factory option when it left the factory, is considered a modification. Non factory color, disc brake conversions, Holley carb, etc. might fall into the modified category.
If that understanding is correct, it may well explain the reason for the modified section. VTCI officials are the people who define what is modified in their own forum, and rightly so. Kinda like some of the insurance companies that won't insure a classic with any mods at all.
FWIW, that's the impression I got after having the judging explained to me. If I'm wrong, I'm sure one of the administrators will explain much better that I can.

Nice explanation edpol... exactly right! VTCI does not discriminate against modified T-Birds but they are judged differently. Many in this forum are VTCI members and understand the difference. Concerning the separate areas are for the reason on interest... concours people are not interested in modified parts and modified people are not interested in building their cars with only original and NOS parts.

Terri McNeill wrote:original and NOS parts.

What the hell are those??

Yep... you wouldn't know!!

Terri: here here. I agree the idea is original and judged so OR modified and accepted but not the two against each other! Me im a purist type of guy but does not mean im the only answer. To each his own.