My head first delve into 1963 85z vs 89m. A rebuild of a senior build

[Ducksface]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1963- ... erbird-22/

I just purchased this car, maybe 10 days ago.
The man who has owned it for the last 10 years, and the man who owned it for 10 years prior, know nothing about it. It was sold at Mecum both times. The small bit of text attached in the Mecum says the. Tonneau and m package was dealer installed.

I can understand adding the tonneau if you wanted a B car after they quit making them or had to have yellow. Why add the front fender emblems and the grab handle in 1963 when authenticity would be last thing on a buyers mind?

I can almost understand the intake swap.(I havent pulled a valve cover nor checked the distributor yet)
But
Unless the chrome came with the intake and carbs as a kit, I'm kinda missing the point.
And
Unless there's proof of the dealer add-on, how could it be a concourse winner?

So, here's my problem:
If someone has the old concourse records or knows who restored this (it's MAGNIFICENT) so I can get some proofs, I'll make it a high point car again and become the latest caretaker.
If it's just a conglomerate 'tribute' car, I'll swap out the goodyear customs and drive it as often as weather allows.

Does anyone know the restorer or the history?

[Alan H. Tast]

3Y85Z113391 at one time was owned by L.P. Tobin of Ainsworth, IA in 1975 according to a 1975 Sports Roadster Society roster. I do remember this car from the 1987 International Convention at the Doubletree Hotel in Overland Park, KS as it has an incorrect rear deck antenna (a modified front fender antenna). Ron and Suzanne Stucker from ?, Illinois were the owners at that time (see http://vintagethunderbirdclub.net/senior_roster_2.htm ) and at the 1988 North Central Regional in Schaumburg (?), IL. Up until now I did not have data plate info on this car, which has been in my registry files since the 1990s. I need to look at photos from those shows to see if the Roadster items and the tripower were in place during that period.

It isn't uncommon for people to 'clone' a Roadster by adding a tonneau cover, fender emblems and the grab bar, and likewise the same can be said for adding the M-series tripower, though it really wasn't a dealer-installed option. Wire wheels were a factory and dealer-installed option. Also, back in that time, some modifications were allowed like these in Primary Division with no or limited modification point deductions, then the quality and condition were evaluated.

Personally, I'd get rid of the incorrect antenna (Ford actually didn't advertise the rear deck antenna for convertibles because of the potential to damage/bend/break the mast when the trunk was opened) and not sweat the rest of it, as long as the car is properly represented.

[Ducksface]

Thank you.

1975 was pretty early in the tbirds life.

Upon putting the top down for the first time I walked around it to uncrease the rear window, the deck was in full upright position and I whipped myself across the neck with that antenna! I hate that antenna but the modified fender mount base is something a dealer would pull.

If the 1975 owner or your records say it had the m intake, can I still do concourse as sort of grandfathered in?



(I'm still going to check the heads and distributor and trans. I swear it has a bigger cam. Who knows how deep someone got into playing this game....)

[Ducksface]

Another thing I'm a bit confused about.
I have learnwd how some of the m code cars were out of sequence with the vin. My guess is awaiting an engine and set aside on the line.

I was perusing the m code list in the restoration guide.
13359 was built on October 24th and my 13391 was built on October 31st.
Did They build only 30 cars in a week or was one of us pulled off line and then re-inserted?

I speculate and question because I don't want to mess this all up for the next owner 20 years from now.

[Paul Prokop]

This Thunderbird appears to be nothing more than a convertible outfitted with a M code intake system and the various sports roadster additions.
Beautiful car.
Bring it to the VTCI meet in Kansas City next August.

Paul

[Ducksface]

I'm afeared it is just a convertible.
But I'm also afraid its a convertible that gets me into senior class .

So I'm a bit obligated to keep it in the shape its in.
I might buy a driver.

[Jim Wulf]

Interesting car, very nice driver with an original uncracked dash, but cracked and previously repaired original door panels (which never works IME). The spinners appear to be OEM also, not reproductions. You will be investing considerable time and $$$ to bring it up to concours standards. Don't take that as criticism, just the reality of a car that was restored decades ago and obviously driven since. I'll look forward to watching your progress.

[Ducksface]

Thanks Jim and all.

I bought it as a driver but needed to make sure (by asking here)I wasn't messing up something that should instead be preserved. Some one-off like Dana Camaros, a dealer build program of some sort. Or, like a Studebaker I owned, sent back to the factory by the dealer for upgrades.

It was a lot nicer in person than I expected, and it freaked me out, leading me to get an enclosed delivery instead of just driving it from Iowa to my home at the grand Canyon.
It being in the register since 1975 made me hesitate even more.

I knew nothing of t-birds and was simply aquiring a lifelong want from when a true gentleman impressed me when I was 5 or 6 years old.

I've had high point cars before and really didn't enjoy it much.
I wasn't looking too forward to being a caretaker again.
I'll buy some missing stickers/decals, buy some steel wheels and radials(to preserve the kh's for future restorers) and just drive it.

[Ducksface]

I just got off of the phone with the man who originally outfitted it as a b/m...way back in 1970.
Oddly, he had bought the car for the same reason as I, a man driving(in his case this exact car) a tbird convertible impressed him at a young age.
A sled lot find/purchase and he added the tonneau package with the cap, grab bar and emblems, the kh wheels and the entire m kit.


So it's official. Its just a Damn nice driver

[Alan H. Tast]

Suggest you download VTCI's Concourse Rules to review how Senior Division cars are handled. I have two 63s which earned 1st Place Primary and went Senior in 2004 - a hardtop that I added the M setup to in 2006 after it took Best of Show-Driven in 2005 with a '60 hipo aluminum intake (it had the cast iron intake in 2004), and a true Sports Roadster 4v Z-code which has been driven over the years with care. I go Senior Display and have a good time watching others do the hard work. An owner has the option to go back and compete against the points system in Primary after 5 years if I remember correctly. Don't overthink this.

[Ducksface]

The neighbors have seen me driving the 63.
One of them just dropped off a car cover, another the 1969 printing of this.

[ICON 1956]

This will give you a ton of knowledge in reference for your Thunderbird .

[Ducksface]

I found two seeming mistakes in about in about 10 minutes of perusal.
Dual four barrels on a 63 tbird(maybe its me and I just don't know.)
Jack instructions placed on the trunk floor in front of the jack storage cubby.

[Ducksface]

Lucky day today.
Yesterday I found a 3 screw mounted 63 washer pump with the right screws.
Bad shape, but correct.
So...I check my car today and the bright shiny pump I was sure was new and incorrect, is really a PERFECT original, correctly mounted with the correct screws and grommets.

Also found with that bad washer motor, a bakelite starter selonoid. It works.
Mine current one is steel.

[Johnnyboy]

Great price for the car. I now kind of wish I would have just bought one that was finished well instead of dumping all the money into the one I have.