stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

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JamesR
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stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by JamesR »

Hi everyone. I'm currently fixing door related issues as a part of the refurbishment of my car. I have the driver's side door panel off and have corrected the latch adjustment, and I'm now trying to fix the loose exterior driver's side mirror. The mirror is the mechanically controlled adjustable unit that uses three small sheathed cables and a small interior door panel mounted joy stick for control.

The mounting base for the mirror seems very solidly attached to the door, but the base of the mirror itself is loosely attached to the mounting base. When I lifted the mirror up a bit (I can only raise it up so far because of the conduit containing the control cables) I found a part of a nail that someone had jammed between the mounting base and the mirror base. I guess they did that to try to keep the mirror in place, but I think that the only thing needed to keep the mirror attached solidly to the base is the screw in the base of the mirror for tightening the mirror...My car does NOT have that screw.
The fact that someone mickey moused part of a nail tells me that this screw may be hard to find. The hole for the screw looks like a finely threaded screw is used.

Does anybody know a source for that screw? Or can you tell me what the size and thread is so I can buy one at the hardware store? I usually end up buying several and see which one fits, but I want to stop doing that somewhat wasteful practice. Also, it looks like the missing screw might be one of those headless hex fitting types for use with an allen wrench...is that right?

Other questions:
I want to lubricate my latch and lock linkages while I have the panel off. What lubricant would you suggest? Three in one? Silicone? Or dry graphite?

I also would like to lubricate the control cables best as I can. How and what lubricant should I use.

When I got the mirror control joystick free of the panel, I noticed that it adjusted my more freely with a wider range of mirror motion. How should I reinstall the joystick back in the panel to maximize the range of motion in the mirror adjustment.

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redstangbob
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Re: stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by redstangbob »

I can help with a couple of things,
Also, it looks like the missing screw might be one of those headless hex fitting types for use with an allen wrench...is that right?
Yes. sorry I don't know the size but it's very similar to the screws found in many bathroom towel bars and such.
How should I reinstall the joystick back in the panel to maximize the range of motion in the mirror adjustment.
The control is keyed to the door panel, it only goes in correctly one way. Good luck, Bob C
It's gonna be cool when it's done
And now it's really cool !!


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Terry64HT
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Re: stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by Terry64HT »

As Bob says, the control has a key cast into the outer ring and the housing has a corresponding slot. In mine, both parts were either worn or not well cast originally. I covered the end of the knob with a bit of masking tape and marked on the location of the key as well as the direction of "UP" for the mirror. It made the installation and alignment a lot easier.
Hope this helps
Terry
64HT

JamesR
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Re: stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by JamesR »

Thanks Bob and Terry. I didn't know or notice that about that keyed mirror control position. That info helps a lot.

I sprayed WD-40 on the linkages for the latch and lock and wow, it makes a difference. The door latch now returns to the original position after you pull it up to open the door!! I guess that approach will work. The only other question I have regarding the latch/ interior door handle is is that I see a what looks like a spring hanging down unconnected now that i have the door panel and latch handle off. I can't tell if it's a broken spring or a disconnected spring or not a spring at all, but something that serves another purpose. It could be once I get the door panel back on there will be too much resistance/friction for the latch a handle to return to the original position like it's doing now, so maybe it's some sort of auxiliary spring to assist that function (??) I've enclosed a picture of it so I'm hoping you guys know what it is.

Also, my mirror never had the glass mirror element in it. I made a template and had a local glass company make a replacement for not much money. How would you suggest attaching the glass on the pivoting adjustable surface? What kind of adhesive?

Thanks.
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David Langhorne
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Re: stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by David Langhorne »

Bob - I have the same lack of adjustment since I refitted my door panel. Does it matter how the 3 wires go into the slotted ring? I think I got it wrong as it was OK before.
Dave Langhorne 65SL
UK

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paulr
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Re: stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by paulr »

On a 64 at least, the three cables are color coded with small paint daubs. Red, green, and yellow or white (?) to mate with matching colors on the back of the mirror. Hopefully, true about 65/66??
Paul
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tbird
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Re: stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by tbird »

The return spring is broken on your remote handle shaft. Replacements are available from one of our sponsoring Thunderbird parts dealers.

Should have also inculed that the replacement part is the complete shaft, mounting plate, and spring.
Jim Mills
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2002 Thunderbird
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sseebart
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Re: stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by sseebart »

I would stay away from dry graphite. I my experience, it just doesn't last very long in most applications.

While you have the panels off, it's worth while looking at the window mechanism. Even with it in place, you can clean it up somewhat and get some new lube in there. Usually what's left of the factory grease has turned to putty by now.

I have a suspicion that the adjustments needed to the latch are likely due to worn hinge pins. (The heavy doors on these cars are rough on hinges.) Restoring the hinges is a big job, but might be a better, longer lasting solution for your doors.

~Steve

JamesR
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Re: stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by JamesR »

Thanks Steve for the recommendations. I used WD 40 on the linkages and it really seemed to free them up. Good idea about checking the window related stuff. I'll do that. You're right about the old grease becoming putty like. I 'll address that.

As far as the hinges go, I don't think I'm at a point where I need those replaced or addressed on the driver side. Had I needed to adjust the striker plate, I might agree with you.

The problem I originally had was the door wouldn't open without a lot of effort from the outside. Getting the panel off and the inside mechanicals lubricated helped some, but I still had to torque down on the outside handle when opening the door to get it to unlatch and swing open freely. At first I though this meant that the door itself needed downward pressure to open, but I was wrong. I verified this by pulling straight out with the door handle, while at the same time pushing down on the door at another location above the handle - I still had the same problem, so it wasn't that the door needed downward force or correction.

Torquing down on the handle was actually leveraging the internal linkage up to compensate for improper adjustment inside. There was an adjustable vertical rod that took about 20 seconds to turn a couple of times, and the problem was fixed. Not so lucky on the passenger side. I can tell that door is sagging a little bit. We'll see when I get to that.

From what I can tell, I think I've figured out the issue on my mirror. I found a screw at the hardware store that seemed to be the right thread...more or less (a little loose.) But that still wasn't that securing the mirror down. Then I looked at Mac's Thunderbird catalog and they actually sell the headless hex fitting (allen) screws for this application. To my surprise, they said two were required. This became understandable when I looked under my mirror base and saw a threaded hole for a screw towards the forward end of the unit, too. That screw hooks under a portion of the mounting base, and keeps the forward end of the mirror secure. That screw was missing, and THAT'S why some numnbskull tried to put a nail in there in place of the screw. I ordered some screws from Mac's and they'll be here in a few days.

My biggest long term concern on my doors it the shabby interior door panels. The have the standard 64-66 T Bird damage, and the standard duct tape repair. (Yuck.) But new replacement panels from Mac's are 700 bucks a pair (Yikes!)

Has anyone ever used the Accu-Form door panel covers for their 64-66 T Bird? These are COVERS rather than replacements - they attach to the existing damaged panels with some sort of epoxy - and they cost around $ 260 a pair; a lot less money. But if they don;'t work well, I won't use them.

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redstangbob
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Re: stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by redstangbob »

Has anyone ever used the Accu-Form door panel covers for their 64-66 T Bird?
Yes, I've used them. They are a lot of work and the fit is not perfect but....in the end they are a solution to the problem. YMMV Bob C
It's gonna be cool when it's done
And now it's really cool !!


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JamesR
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Re: stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by JamesR »

tbird wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:04 am
The return spring is broken on your remote handle shaft. Replacements are available from one of our sponsoring Thunderbird parts dealers.

Should have also inculed that the replacement part is the complete shaft, mounting plate, and spring.
Thanks a bunch for that info TBird. That helps a lot! I'll check out the sponsors' sites and see what I can do.

Redstangbob, thanks for the review on the Accu Form panel cover. Questions:

- Would you say they're durable? I don't want to do that method if they crack in a couple of years.

- I contacted Accu Form through the only means I know of and get no response. A guy sells black ones only on EBAY, though, but I'd rather have panels closer to the color of my interior. The Ebay guy says they can be painted. Did you paint yours and if so, how did the paint hold up?

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redstangbob
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Re: stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by redstangbob »

The Ebay guy says they can be painted. Did you paint yours and if so, how did the paint hold up?
I got mine from AZ Bob on ebay. I had to get him to send me a replacement set once, they were trimmed too short (length-wise). He sent them at no cost to me. I have a black interior so no extra work there. They are durable, but getting hand holes and lock-knob holes in the right place can be tricky, hence my comment about being lots of work. Plenty of guys here have dyed interior parts, sounds like it can be done well. good luck, Bob C
It's gonna be cool when it's done
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JamesR
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Re: stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by JamesR »

Thanks Bob. I got a hold of AccuForm in Utah yesterday, and found at that all of these panels only come in black. They showed a lot of color options on their site, so I thought that panels could be molded in those colors, but it turns out that those are just paint color options, which they will do for you at an additional cost of about $12 per panel. Not bad. I'm contemplating what to do. I have some SEM product in a workable color that I bought for my headliner, so I could use some of that and do it myself. I think SEM also makes a spray on prep specifically for hard plastic interior components to help the color adhere to the plastic, and I can get that at the local auto paint place.

The thing is, the simulated wood grain and wide metal trim at the top of both panels are still in fairly good shape, and I'd really like to retain them. (I've included a picture of my current interior.) I'm hoping I could maybe trim the panel covers some how to leave these areas as is and just cover the damaged lower portions of the existing panels. Can you think of any reason that wouldn't work?

Thanks
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paulr
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Re: stock exterior mirror mounting questions. '65 T-Bird

Post by paulr »

JamesR wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:14 pm


The thing is, the simulated wood grain and wide metal trim at the top of both panels are still in fairly good shape, and I'd really like to retain them. (I've included a picture of my current interior.) I'm hoping I could maybe trim the panel covers some how to leave these areas as is and just cover the damaged lower portions of the existing panels. Can you think of any reason that wouldn't work?
I say do it. If I get another Tbird, I won't buy reproduction panels again; they were only $600 last time. Too much. Basically, the plastic panels are super tough, but not perfectly fit so you have to work and work to make them fit. Shouldn't be like that. Secondly, in the Landau case, most of the vinyl skin is hidden by your upper metal trim and lower carpet. If your cardboard panels are still strong, I would absolutely buy color matched vinyl yardage and glue it over the old. Your 65 pull cup would be no problem to handle. Only the armrest corner would take some thinking; I've seen an upholstery shop handle that corner with a neatly stitched seam. You'd solve your color problem and save a ton of cash this way. I know it's what I'd do on my next Tbird if the panel part is still strong.

This is the corner of the armrest I'm talking about (if you're not familiar, 64s don't have a pull cup in the armrest). It would be the only tricky spot; it could be stitched, maybe?
photo 2 (1).jpg
Paul
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