Throttle Stop Issues

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stevegintn
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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:44 pm

Jim Wulf wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:52 pm

Well, your engine rebuilder sure didn't do you any favors when he reassembled the linkage. Good grief!

I will tell you that the throttle spring bracket, throttle stop bumper, and throttle stop bracket are very difficult to reach and install. The stop bracket may prove to be especially frustrating since it's installed on the bell housing and the bolt (one of the bell housing bolts) is inserted from the rear. We're not sure that this was omitted during the reassembly, but I think it's very probable given the rest of the linkage issues.
[/quote]

Jim, while I'm waiting for the other parts, I went out to try to get the hard part done (throttle return spring & throttle stop brackets).

You were right - the throttle stop bracket is a problem.

I was able to easily install the throttle return spring bracket. For the stop bracket, I cannot get the bolt broken loose (have sprayed with PB Blaster, so that might help?)

A couple more questions: Looking at the photos, you can see the throttle stop bracket and rubber bumper. Photo A (I believe from Karl?) shows the location of the stop bracket & bumper (although missing some components?). Photo B shows the bolt thru the bell housing that I cannot get out, and the location of where MY stop bracket will go. Finally, Photo C is the one YOU shared above.

Note that from MY photo B, I do not have the shiny lever that's connected to your stop bracket (photo C) - what is it?
throttlestop_bracket.jpg
throttlestop_missing.jpg
kickdown.jpg
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'02 Sportrac 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

tbird
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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by tbird » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:44 am

Steve

I think the shiny lever is really a boss on the bell housing casting with a hole in it. The tongue of Karls stop bracket is shown in photo "A" at the place it should be but the casting is broken at that point.

Hope that helps you.

Jim M
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stevegintn
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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:15 am

tbird wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:44 am
Steve

I think the shiny lever is really a boss on the bell housing casting with a hole in it. The tongue of Karls stop bracket is shown in photo "A" at the place it should be but the casting is broken at that point.

Hope that helps you.

Jim M
OK, but my point is, I am missing that 'boss' - is it something I should have (maybe for the kickdown to work)?

Also, in the event I cannot get the stop bracket bolt out, can I live without it (the throttle stop bracket & button)?

Thanks,
Steve G.
Steve G.
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'61 TBird HT (parts car)
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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by tbird » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:54 pm

Steve
If you have a broken boss like Karl appears to have it likely will not make any difference to the operation. The purpose of the boss and the bracket tang that goes into it is to assure that it is installed correctly, If it is placed on the correct bell housing bolt and the tab end is at the correct missing boss location tighten up the bolt and the bracket should not move.

The brackets purpose is have the throttle stop rubber bump against it when the accelerator it almost wide open. When the rubber hits the stop it tips the linkage over and allows the carb to be opened to full throttle and the C.O.M. transmission to drop into passing gear. When the throttle bump stop bracket or bumper is not in place you will not be able to open the secondaries to full throttle or down shift the transmission for faster acceleration
Jim Mills
VTCI # 8071
VTCI 1964-66 Technical Editor
2002 Thunderbird
1965 Convertible
1962 Convertible (in progress)
1959 Ford Retractable HT
Many parts cars

stevegintn
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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:09 pm

tbird wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:54 pm
Steve
If you have a broken boss like Karl appears to have it likely will not make any difference to the operation. The purpose of the boss and the bracket tang that goes into it is to assure that it is installed correctly, If it is placed on the correct bell housing bolt and the tab end is at the correct missing boss location tighten up the bolt and the bracket should not move.

The brackets purpose is have the throttle stop rubber bump against it when the accelerator it almost wide open. When the rubber hits the stop it tips the linkage over and allows the carb to be opened to full throttle and the C.O.M. transmission to drop into passing gear. When the throttle bump stop bracket or bumper is not in place you will not be able to open the secondaries to full throttle or down shift the transmission for faster acceleration
Thanks, again Jim - to reclarify, I don't have a broken boss - mine is GONE (I assume, it's a factory part?). So, I am hoping I can get the bell housing bolt OUT, and the bracket will not move.

Failing that, and I am unable to install the throttle stop bracket & bumper, sounds like I can live without it? (I am not likely to be doing any pedal-to-the metal accelerating? Lol!)

I now have all the parts needed - thanks again for your help. Now all I need is this weather to cooperate, so I can try to put the puzzle back together?
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'02 Sportrac 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

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redstangbob
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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by redstangbob » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:52 am

I should clear up one thing, the picture of the broken out hole on the bell housing came from Nick Pepe owner of Nick's Tbirds, and may have been first posted by me. Even if that boss or hole or ear is gone, the bracket will still rest against the block or spacer plate and do it's job. good luck, Bob C
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Karl
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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by Karl » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:22 am

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't that throttle stop unique to a 62 Bird?
If so the transmission housing that Steve G has may be a later model and therefore hasn't got the hole to hold the throttle stop bracket.
Karl
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop

stevegintn
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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:06 pm

Karl wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:22 am
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't that throttle stop unique to a 62 Bird?
If so the transmission housing that Steve G has may be a later model and therefore hasn't got the hole to hold the throttle stop bracket.
Karl
Karl, if you look at Photo B (of my car) of the 3 I posted, you can clearly see the bolt into bell housing, which would fasten the throttle stop bracket (or am I missing something?)
Steve G.
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'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'02 Sportrac 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:09 pm

redstangbob wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:52 am
I should clear up one thing, the picture of the broken out hole on the bell housing came from Nick Pepe owner of Nick's Tbirds, and may have been first posted by me. Even if that boss or hole or ear is gone, the bracket will still rest against the block or spacer plate and do it's job. good luck, Bob C
Thanks, Bob
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'02 Sportrac 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by tbird » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:59 am

Steve
I was working on my 62 today and looking at my throttle bump stop, noted that the hole for the tang on the stop is not on the 62 bell housing it is just a flat boss on the casting where the tang contacts it. The photo that Jim W. provided clearly shows that.

The small bump stop was used from 61-64 then a much larger design was used for 65 early 66, when the C-6 transmission was introduced in late October/November of 1965 it used a new design.

Jim
Jim Mills
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stevegintn
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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:33 am

tbird wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:59 am
Steve
I was working on my 62 today and looking at my throttle bump stop, noted that the hole for the tang on the stop is not on the 62 bell housing it is just a flat boss on the casting where the tang contacts it. The photo that Jim W. provided clearly shows that.

The small bump stop was used from 61-64 then a much larger design was used for 65 early 66, when the C-6 transmission was introduced in late October/November of 1965 it used a new design.

Jim
OK, Jim - trying to get my mind around this latest piece of the puzzle

If I understand you correctly, the TANG on the TS bracket does not go into a HOLE, but just abuts the bell housing casting? (hard to see, for me, in Jim W photo).
TS_bracket.jpg
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'02 Sportrac 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by tbird » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:59 pm

You got it Steve sorry for adding the confusion on the extra hole that was only used on the 64-66 C.O.M. transmission cars. The bracket for the 66 car with a C-6 transmission is a bit larger and has two bolt holes on it.
Jim Mills
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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by Jim Wulf » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:18 pm

tbird wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:59 pm
You got it Steve sorry for adding the confusion on the extra hole that was only used on the 64-66 C.O.M. transmission cars. The bracket for the 66 car with a C-6 transmission is a bit larger and has two bolt holes on it.
Just to add some additional food for thought:

I have three '63 transmissions and converter housings here in the shop at the moment, and all of them have the boss/hole for insertion of the kickdown bracket tang, so the hole was likely present from '63 forward. And it's present on a '64 transmission/converter housing that I also have sitting here. My '62 SR is presently in the paint shop and taped up with plastic so I can't see what that converter housing looks like, but I'll be interested to see if it the same as Jim M's without the boss/hole arrangement.

Both the '63 and '64 housings have a C1SP part number with an "A" suffix. Maybe the "A" signifies a running change between '62 and '63. What is the part number on your housing, Jim? My edition of the Blue Bible does't yield any more useful information, but Alan may be able to shed some more light on this.

As others have rightly said, the tang can just rest against the housing and everything will function as was intended. Maybe the boss/hole was added to keep the bracket from rotating upwards and out of position as the bolt is tightened. Just trying to think of why the design may have changed between '62 and '63.

1964 Converter Housing:

Image
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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:00 pm

A quick update

After biblical rain here all last week, we finally got a couple of warmer & dry days, so I went out to install the pesky kickdown #@*'y bracket.
As I was pre-positioning it, it slipped out of my butter-fingers and DISAPPEARED down behind the firewall (of course, did NOT fall all way to ground).

Only solution, jack up the front of the car and crawl under. Luckily, was a quick find, laying atop one of the exhaust pipes (whew!).

So I VERY CAREFULLY installed it. Then realized, I forgot to pop on the rubber bumper behind it (may not be possible now?)

Going out shortly to try to install the new accel rods & springs (hope will be the EASY part?)

Thanks, Jim Mills, Jim Wulf, and Karl for all your great help!
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'02 Sportrac 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

stevegintn
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Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:01 pm

Woo-Hoo! - all done, and she purrs like a kitten! (will roar like a lion, too :mrgreen: )

Thanks, again, Guys, for all your help!
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'02 Sportrac 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

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