Throttle Stop Issues

This area is for posting questions/information concerning 1961-63 year Thunderbirds NO FOR SALE POSTINGS

Moderator: ABQTBird

User avatar
Jim Wulf
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:19 pm
Location: S.E. Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by Jim Wulf » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:22 pm

Steve,

I probably have everything that you need in my spares. Send me a photo or two of the back of the intake manifold so I can see if you have the throttle return spring bracket that's secured to the rearmost left manifold bolt. Is the throttle stop bumper installed on the throttle linkage bracket that's secured to the firewall? look through the rest of the photo's on my website that Karl referenced above to compare what you have with the parts that actually belong there.

I would hazard to guess that your carb is fine, but the throttle linkage is really a mess, no offense intended. I would not drive the car with that setup for fear the throttle would stick open. Let me know.
Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
62 SR Red/Black
63 CV Black/Red
67 MGB Roadster
38 MG TA Tickford Drophead Coupe
Past Birds:
63 MSR Red/Pearl Beige
66 CV Red/Red
63 CV Patrician Green/Pearl Beige
61 HT White/Pearl Beige
63 HT Caspian Blue/Blue

stevegintn
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:28 pm

Jim Wulf wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:22 pm
Steve,

I probably have everything that you need in my spares. Send me a photo or two of the back of the intake manifold so I can see if you have the throttle return spring bracket that's secured to the rearmost left manifold bolt. Is the throttle stop bumper installed on the throttle linkage bracket that's secured to the firewall? look through the rest of the photo's on my website that Karl referenced above to compare what you have with the parts that actually belong there.

I would hazard to guess that your carb is fine, but the throttle linkage is really a mess, no offense intended. I would not drive the car with that setup for fear the throttle would stick open. Let me know.
Thanks, Jim - I will do that (and yes, not driving till straightened out)
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

stevegintn
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:33 pm

OK, Jim here are some closeups of the kickdown area - looks like I am missing the short rod, that connects the throttle rod to the kickdown?
Also, that bracket that bolts to top of manifold? And of course, the dashpot.

I'm not sure what you mean, about rubber bumper at firewall (can you see that in my photos?)

Anything else?
link1.jpg
link2.jpg
link3.jpg
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

User avatar
Jim Wulf
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:19 pm
Location: S.E. Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by Jim Wulf » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:43 pm

Steve,

Everything you are missing is reproduced and relatively inexpensive so you might as well just order them from a Thunderbird vendor.

1. You are missing the throttle stop bumper. It goes in the bottom and largest of the three holes in the "L" shaped throttle stop plate in your second photo.

2. The short kick down spring, shown in photos 1 and 3 is correct, as is the kick down spring securing bracket on the left rearmost rear carb stud & nut. The '61-'62 spring bracket is not reproduced so you want to make sure you keep this one. A new kick down spring wouldn't hurt as yours appears to be stretched and distorted. The odd longer spring should be discarded.

3. As you already surmised, the throttle spring bracket that goes on the left rearmost intake bolt is missing, as is the throttle spring.

4. The accelerator rod clip is missing and has been replaced by the funky spaghetti wire arrangement.

5. The throttle stop bracket that is secured to the bell housing may be missing. I can't see it in the photos, but I'm guessing it probably is since the bumper is missing. This is the necessary third component of the funky Thunderbird throttle system.

6. Yes, you are missing the kick down rod and clip. The accelerator rod is also bent at the threaded end and should be replaced.

Here's an exact list of what you need and everything is relatively inexpensive. I only used the Thunderbird Headquarters and pat Wilson online catalogs because they're easy to search. You can buy these same items from any of the Thunderbird parts vendors:

http://www.tbirdhq.com/pc_product_detai ... E901D322C3

http://www.tbirdhq.com/pc_product_detai ... 2C5F265D30

http://www.tbirdhq.com/pc_product_detai ... 8E47A41101

http://www.tbirdhq.com/pc_product_detai ... BBFB7E6953

http://www.tbirdhq.com/pc_product_detai ... 1058A6F181

http://www.tbirdhq.com/pc_product_detai ... 04CD797493

http://www.tbirdhq.com/pc_product_detai ... C7D80346D5

https://www.wilsontbird.com/parts/1961- ... n-assembly
Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
62 SR Red/Black
63 CV Black/Red
67 MGB Roadster
38 MG TA Tickford Drophead Coupe
Past Birds:
63 MSR Red/Pearl Beige
66 CV Red/Red
63 CV Patrician Green/Pearl Beige
61 HT White/Pearl Beige
63 HT Caspian Blue/Blue

User avatar
Karl
Posts: 756
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:03 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by Karl » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:40 am

G'day Steve.
Looking at your first photo (of the block of 3), the rod that goes to the carburetor from the accelerator lever. where it joins the lever at the back of the engine bay you have it on the wrong side of the lever. The way that it is set up you won't be able to fit the spring onto the round button that is at the top. If you move the accelerator rod to the other side of the lever then you will be able to attach the return spring to it and then the other end of the spring will be able to go down to the bracket onto one of the inlet manifold bolts.
Have a look at Jim Wulf's pages.
Karl.
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop

stevegintn
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:53 am

Jim Wulf wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:43 pm
Steve,

Everything you are missing is reproduced and relatively inexpensive so you might as well just order them from a Thunderbird vendor.

1. You are missing the throttle stop bumper. It goes in the bottom and largest of the three holes in the "L" shaped throttle stop plate in your second photo.

2. The short kick down spring, shown in photos 1 and 3 is correct, as is the kick down spring securing bracket on the left rearmost rear carb stud & nut. The '61-'62 spring bracket is not reproduced so you want to make sure you keep this one. A new kick down spring wouldn't hurt as yours appears to be stretched and distorted. The odd longer spring should be discarded.

3. As you already surmised, the throttle spring bracket that goes on the left rearmost intake bolt is missing, as is the throttle spring.

4. The accelerator rod clip is missing and has been replaced by the funky spaghetti wire arrangement.

5. The throttle stop bracket that is secured to the bell housing may be missing. I can't see it in the photos, but I'm guessing it probably is since the bumper is missing. This is the necessary third component of the funky Thunderbird throttle system.

6. Yes, you are missing the kick down rod and clip. The accelerator rod is also bent at the threaded end and should be replaced.

Here's an exact list of what you need and everything is relatively inexpensive. I only used the Thunderbird Headquarters and pat Wilson online catalogs because they're easy to search. You can buy these same items from any of the Thunderbird parts vendors: (snip>
Jim Wulf, THANK YOU!

I will be ordering all those missing parts this week. Now, can I snowbird you down South, to help me put the puzzle together? :mrgreen:
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

stevegintn
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:08 am

Karl wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:40 am
G'day Steve.
Looking at your first photo (of the block of 3), the rod that goes to the carburetor from the accelerator lever. where it joins the lever at the back of the engine bay you have it on the wrong side of the lever. The way that it is set up you won't be able to fit the spring onto the round button that is at the top. If you move the accelerator rod to the other side of the lever then you will be able to attach the return spring to it and then the other end of the spring will be able to go down to the bracket onto one of the inlet manifold bolts.
Have a look at Jim Wulf's pages.
Karl.
OK, Karl, it took a lot of jumping back and forth between photos, but I think I understand what you are saying - the main (long) accelerator rod is on the wrong side of the lever at the rear of the engine. I will fix that, today - thanks!
link.jpg
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

stevegintn
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:26 pm

Just an update, Jim Wulf, I have ordered those parts from Pat Wilson's - thanks again!

Karl, I went out for about an hour and managed to move the accelerator rod to the OTHER SIDE of the rear lever/bracket. I also removed the 'spaghetti' wire from the accel pump rod. But I didn't have the correct size clips to refasten either one.

But I may have to hire some help, to get it all put back together? (neuropathy in both feet & legs - standing and leaning over engine bay for an hour about did me in). I sure wish one of you guys was close!
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

stevegintn
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:51 pm

Btw, while browsing through my history data, came across this photo (solved the mystery of what happened to my OEM carb linkage).

I took this photo just AFTER I reinstalled my newly-rebuilt carb, but BEFORE my car went off to the engine rebuilder (yes, I should have taken the breather off when I picked it up, and taken a GOOD LOOK). Notice anything different?
new_carb.jpg
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

User avatar
Jim Wulf
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:19 pm
Location: S.E. Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by Jim Wulf » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:52 pm

stevegintn wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:51 pm
Btw, while browsing through my history data, came across this photo (solved the mystery of what happened to my OEM carb linkage).

I took this photo just AFTER I reinstalled my newly-rebuilt carb, but BEFORE my car went off to the engine rebuilder (yes, I should have taken the breather off when I picked it up, and taken a GOOD LOOK). Notice anything different?

new_carb.jpg
Well, your engine rebuilder sure didn't do you any favors when he reassembled the linkage. Good grief!

I will tell you that the throttle spring bracket, throttle stop bumper, and throttle stop bracket are very difficult to reach and install. The stop bracket may prove to be especially frustrating since it's installed on the bell housing and the bolt (one of the bell housing bolts) is inserted from the rear. We're not sure that this was omitted during the reassembly, but I think it's very probable given the rest of the linkage issues.

Image
Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
62 SR Red/Black
63 CV Black/Red
67 MGB Roadster
38 MG TA Tickford Drophead Coupe
Past Birds:
63 MSR Red/Pearl Beige
66 CV Red/Red
63 CV Patrician Green/Pearl Beige
61 HT White/Pearl Beige
63 HT Caspian Blue/Blue

stevegintn
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:17 am

Jim Wulf wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:52 pm

Well, your engine rebuilder sure didn't do you any favors when he reassembled the linkage. Good grief!

I will tell you that the throttle spring bracket, throttle stop bumper, and throttle stop bracket are very difficult to reach and install. The stop bracket may prove to be especially frustrating since it's installed on the bell housing and the bolt (one of the bell housing bolts) is inserted from the rear. We're not sure that this was omitted during the reassembly, but I think it's very probable given the rest of the linkage issues.

Image
Dang - I was afraid you were going to say that?

Just fooling with the linkage rods about an hour yesterday, about killed me. If I cannot get my son to come help me (or find a mobile mechanic to come out), I may have to do without the stop bumper & bracket (don't have it now, so what's the delta risk?)
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

User avatar
Jim Wulf
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:19 pm
Location: S.E. Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by Jim Wulf » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:46 pm

stevegintn wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:17 am
Jim Wulf wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:52 pm

Well, your engine rebuilder sure didn't do you any favors when he reassembled the linkage. Good grief!

I will tell you that the throttle spring bracket, throttle stop bumper, and throttle stop bracket are very difficult to reach and install. The stop bracket may prove to be especially frustrating since it's installed on the bell housing and the bolt (one of the bell housing bolts) is inserted from the rear. We're not sure that this was omitted during the reassembly, but I think it's very probable given the rest of the linkage issues.

Image
Dang - I was afraid you were going to say that?

Just fooling with the linkage rods about an hour yesterday, about killed me. If I cannot get my son to come help me (or find a mobile mechanic to come out), I may have to do without the stop bumper & bracket (don't have it now, so what's the delta risk?)
If all of the throttle components aren't in place, the kick down won't function and it's likely you won't be able to engage the secondaries. You're going to have terrible acceleration response which is dangerous in a 4400 pound car, not to mention the possibility of the linkage getting jammed. There's a reason the Ford engineers designed the bracket and bumper into the throttle system and I would urge you not to second guess them just because installation is a little difficult. Because of the spinal stenosis I've developed which makes bending over the engine compartment difficult, I'll sometimes remove all bendable/breakable items like dipstick, ignition wire brackets, etc., from the left side of the engine compartment, stuff some appropriate foam cushions in the space and then lay across them in order to reach whatever I'm working on. You just gotta improvise sometimes.

Look at this thread for a good picture of the bracket and bumper in place. It's a little difficult, but really not as bad as I may have made it seem.

https://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net/ ... php?t=4537
Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
62 SR Red/Black
63 CV Black/Red
67 MGB Roadster
38 MG TA Tickford Drophead Coupe
Past Birds:
63 MSR Red/Pearl Beige
66 CV Red/Red
63 CV Patrician Green/Pearl Beige
61 HT White/Pearl Beige
63 HT Caspian Blue/Blue

stevegintn
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:57 am

Jim Wulf wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:46 pm
If all of the throttle components aren't in place, the kick down won't function and it's likely you won't be able to engage the secondaries. You're going to have terrible acceleration response which is dangerous in a 4400 pound car, not to mention the possibility of the linkage getting jammed. There's a reason the Ford engineers designed the bracket and bumper into the throttle system and I would urge you not to second guess them just because installation is a little difficult. Because of the spinal stenosis I've developed which makes bending over the engine compartment difficult, I'll sometimes remove all bendable/breakable items like dipstick, ignition wire brackets, etc., from the left side of the engine compartment, stuff some appropriate foam cushions in the space and then lay across them in order to reach whatever I'm working on. You just gotta improvise sometimes.

Look at this thread for a good picture of the bracket and bumper in place. It's a little difficult, but really not as bad as I may have made it seem.

https://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net/ ... php?t=4537
Many thanks, Jim!

That other post and photos really helps. But I doubt I'll try to lay my old 250 lbs across my engine? (trying to get young nephew to come help)

It's a balmy 27 here right now, but should warm back to the 50's & 60's next week, by the time the parts get here?

That bracket & bumper will be the first thing to try to install.
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

stevegintn
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:46 pm

Still waiting on all the parts (got one box of 5 items from Pat Wilson's - short of a 60 cent clip that is essential. The I realized, I missed ordering 2 more items. (I did call them to let them know about missing an item - guy said, "No, you overlooked it - check the box again" - what an idiot!)
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

stevegintn
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Throttle Stop Issues

Post by stevegintn » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:44 pm

Jim Wulf wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:52 pm

Well, your engine rebuilder sure didn't do you any favors when he reassembled the linkage. Good grief!

I will tell you that the throttle spring bracket, throttle stop bumper, and throttle stop bracket are very difficult to reach and install. The stop bracket may prove to be especially frustrating since it's installed on the bell housing and the bolt (one of the bell housing bolts) is inserted from the rear. We're not sure that this was omitted during the reassembly, but I think it's very probable given the rest of the linkage issues.
[/quote]

Jim, while I'm waiting for the other parts, I went out to try to get the hard part done (throttle return spring & throttle stop brackets).

You were right - the throttle stop bracket is a problem.

I was able to easily install the throttle return spring bracket. For the stop bracket, I cannot get the bolt broken loose (have sprayed with PB Blaster, so that might help?)

A couple more questions: Looking at the photos, you can see the throttle stop bracket and rubber bumper. Photo A (I believe from Karl?) shows the location of the stop bracket & bumper (although missing some components?). Photo B shows the bolt thru the bell housing that I cannot get out, and the location of where MY stop bracket will go. Finally, Photo C is the one YOU shared above.

Note that from MY photo B, I do not have the shiny lever that's connected to your stop bracket (photo C) - what is it?
throttlestop_bracket.jpg
throttlestop_missing.jpg
kickdown.jpg
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

Post Reply