Looking to do a front end rebuild and wondered 2 things...
1 - How to get the spring out so I cana get to the bushings and ball joints, etc. I bought an Eastwood exteral compressor kit, but jusy can't seem to get the clearances I nedd to get them out.
2- Any experience with the bushing replacement kits like Kater and others? Polygraphite and urethane and rubber, lots of choices. Adise on any?
Coil Springs
Moderator: redstangbob
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eduncan042
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:58 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Coil Springs
Eric
'64 Landau
'65 Special Landau
'64 Landau
'65 Special Landau
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Alan H. Tast
- Posts: 4252
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:52 pm
- Location: Omaha, NE
Coil spring replacement
First, the external-type compressors dont' work well with the '61-'66 T-bird: you've learned this the hard way, regretfully. A high-quality internal compressor is needed - one which will handle the high spring rate. I don't have a recommendation right off hand as to where to get one other than the Snap-On man or similar outlet. Ford had a special took made for T-bird spring removal which can be seen in the '64 Shop Manual, but these are virtually impossible to find unless you know someone who has one. You can use the external compressors to hold the spring together while it is compressed, though.
This is EXTREMELY important: do NOT use cheap foreing-made junk for compressors - they have been know to fail, resulting in people being maimed and killed when they let go. Use a compressor with large Ajax threads - they stand up better to the loads.
If you lack the proper tools to get the spring out, I strongly advise you to spend a few dollars and have a suspension shop tackle the job, provided they're willing to do it.
As for suspension components, others will have to chime in on polygraphite or other ones, as I've only used rubber. Kanter's kits have been used by thousands with very few complaints. I again strongly recommend that if you're replacing the upper shaft bushings that you also replace the shaft as well. Yes, it's more money, but you'll be kicking yourself for not doing it when everything was apart. Also, make sure you get grease zerks installed in the bushing ends with 90-degree fittings so that you can lube them from time to time.
This is EXTREMELY important: do NOT use cheap foreing-made junk for compressors - they have been know to fail, resulting in people being maimed and killed when they let go. Use a compressor with large Ajax threads - they stand up better to the loads.
If you lack the proper tools to get the spring out, I strongly advise you to spend a few dollars and have a suspension shop tackle the job, provided they're willing to do it.
As for suspension components, others will have to chime in on polygraphite or other ones, as I've only used rubber. Kanter's kits have been used by thousands with very few complaints. I again strongly recommend that if you're replacing the upper shaft bushings that you also replace the shaft as well. Yes, it's more money, but you'll be kicking yourself for not doing it when everything was apart. Also, make sure you get grease zerks installed in the bushing ends with 90-degree fittings so that you can lube them from time to time.
Alan H. Tast, AIA
Technical Director/Past President,
Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
1963 Hardtop & 1963 Sports Roadster
Technical Director/Past President,
Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
1963 Hardtop & 1963 Sports Roadster
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Terri McNeill
- Site Admin
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- Location: Seattle WA area
- Contact:
Coil spring replacement
I heartly agree with Alan. The coil springs on the earlier Birds are dangerous to attempt changing them without the correct tools. I had a 66 that we completely rebuilt from the ground up and there was only one job that was completed by a shop rather than myself, the coil springs! I purchased a set of the correct Ford/Thunderbird springs from a local Ford dealership and took them to the shop for changing. When I picked up the springs at the Ford dealership I thought they were the wrong spring as they stood waist high! That is how much they are compressed when installed! Also, during this restoration the deteriorating old spring started to break apart, when the pressure was eliminated small chunks broke off and went flying, embedding inself in the garage wall! I was under the car at the time and luckily it didn't embed itself in my head!
Terri McNeill, Past VTCI President, currently VTCI Publications Director, Member of VTCI, VTCI-PNWC and Chicagoland Thunderbirds
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eduncan042
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:58 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Springs
I'd hate to fall victim to a spring - can think of a million better ways to go.
So, should I leave the springs on, and when drivable again ask a shop to do the whole front end rebuild? This one's tough since I know all the rubber is bad and those springs need to come off to get to it all. VEry frustrating
E
So, should I leave the springs on, and when drivable again ask a shop to do the whole front end rebuild? This one's tough since I know all the rubber is bad and those springs need to come off to get to it all. VEry frustrating
E
Eric
'64 Landau
'65 Special Landau
'64 Landau
'65 Special Landau
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mike harmon
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:22 am
- Location: Redlands, CA
It's easier and cheaper to get it all done at one time; otherwise duplicate labor will have to be done, and the car will have to be tied more than one time. As to the bushings, I don't know about the polygraphite, but as far as rubber or polyurethane, rubber is soft, ployurethane is fairly hard. The "rubber ride" is softer, but with less control. The "polyurethane ride" will be harsher with more road vibration, but with better control. Just depends upon what you want.
Since it appears you'll be going to a front end shop for the rebuild, my suggestion is to go to a shop than specializes in Ford restorations even if it means taking your car to a place a hundred miles away. I didn't. I took my '62 to a local shop (the only one with the internal compressor), which specialized in all ages and makes of older cars- but nothing in particular. The closest TBird shop is about 60 miles away, and since the work is about a 2-day job if all parts are on hand, I stayed local. I even went so far as to copy the pages and specs out of the shop manual for them, to make sure it got done right. The upper A-arm shafts and bushings are a strange all-metal arrangement, and must be carefully measured and torqued during assembly.
When I got the car back (about $500 worth of labor later, plus expensive parts), the alignment was still out. They re-did that, to no avail. I had it aligned again at another old-timer shop (they didn't have the compressor), ending up a little better but still wandering a little, even with new shocks and anti-sway bar. Out of curiosity, I pulled the wheels and checked the measurements on the assembled shafts- they are supposed to be centered, and they are not; they are off by about an eighth of an inch or more, and the bushing caps are on so tight that they have bottomed out on the shaft- no grease can get into the assembly.
I went back to the shop that did the rebuilding, and guess what? They're no longer in business! I later found out from a friend who had a 914-6 Porsche's suspension rebuilt there went thru something similar- but it destroyed his new suspension job.
So, the next time I have a descretionary $500 or $600 laying around, I'll deposit the car with the TBird-only shop in L.A. for a week or two and let them cure it's ills. That was an expensive and frustrating lesson.
Since it appears you'll be going to a front end shop for the rebuild, my suggestion is to go to a shop than specializes in Ford restorations even if it means taking your car to a place a hundred miles away. I didn't. I took my '62 to a local shop (the only one with the internal compressor), which specialized in all ages and makes of older cars- but nothing in particular. The closest TBird shop is about 60 miles away, and since the work is about a 2-day job if all parts are on hand, I stayed local. I even went so far as to copy the pages and specs out of the shop manual for them, to make sure it got done right. The upper A-arm shafts and bushings are a strange all-metal arrangement, and must be carefully measured and torqued during assembly.
When I got the car back (about $500 worth of labor later, plus expensive parts), the alignment was still out. They re-did that, to no avail. I had it aligned again at another old-timer shop (they didn't have the compressor), ending up a little better but still wandering a little, even with new shocks and anti-sway bar. Out of curiosity, I pulled the wheels and checked the measurements on the assembled shafts- they are supposed to be centered, and they are not; they are off by about an eighth of an inch or more, and the bushing caps are on so tight that they have bottomed out on the shaft- no grease can get into the assembly.
I went back to the shop that did the rebuilding, and guess what? They're no longer in business! I later found out from a friend who had a 914-6 Porsche's suspension rebuilt there went thru something similar- but it destroyed his new suspension job.
So, the next time I have a descretionary $500 or $600 laying around, I'll deposit the car with the TBird-only shop in L.A. for a week or two and let them cure it's ills. That was an expensive and frustrating lesson.
I am currently finishing up a front rebuild on my '65. I have not driven it yet, so I don't know if I did everything right. The coil spring replacement was an unwelcomed necessity of the job. I found both front coils broken at the upper A-arm! I found a very necessary tool on E-bay for this job. It is advertised for Mustangs, Falcons and Fairlanes but it works on the 61-66 Birds too. The seller did not know that. It is a cap that goes on top of the spring tower and allows you to use an internal coil spring compressor, with the top hooks removed. The Acme screw on the compressor is not long enough to let you completely decompress the spring! I had to support the spring on a make shift support to let the tension off the compressor and spin the compressor hooks farther up on the spring.
You can get the cap from Ray CopenHaver, 254 West Main St., Hummelstown, PA 17036 Phone (717)566-9227. I talked to him a few weeks ago and he still has them. They cost $30-35 and are worth it.
I am working on putting my experience together for an article in my local Bird letter and for the Scoop. I have lots of pictures. E-mail me if you want to look at them. I can copy them on a mini CD and send them to you.
Al Wassilak
Chicagoland Thunderbirds
You can get the cap from Ray CopenHaver, 254 West Main St., Hummelstown, PA 17036 Phone (717)566-9227. I talked to him a few weeks ago and he still has them. They cost $30-35 and are worth it.
I am working on putting my experience together for an article in my local Bird letter and for the Scoop. I have lots of pictures. E-mail me if you want to look at them. I can copy them on a mini CD and send them to you.
Al Wassilak
Chicagoland Thunderbirds