1966 Bird & Pertronix

[abaucom]

I am not mechanical, I rely on shops to work on my 1966 Bird convertible. But after ten years of ownership, multiple shops in two countries, I learned to ask questions to other Bird owners before taking the advice from shops.
I have a 1966 Bird convertible bought ten years ago, 390 engine rebuild 25 years ago (previous owner) and only about 2,500 miles since rebuilt. Novice that I was, about nine years ago had a Holly Classic 600 CFM Carburetor installed with a Pertronix electronic ignition installed to get rid of the points. All that sounded good to me at the time but never improved performance or ease of starting the car.
I look at videos, see classic cars start instantly at the turn of a key, without pumping the pedal twice. I pump my pedal twice, still cranks and cranks until the engine fires up. It is embarrassing at car shows.
Help: Is there any way I can get my 1966 Bird, 390 engine, fired up with the turn of the key? Pertronix parts? If so what parts?

I need to stay off YouTube. Watching classic cars start without hesitation at a turn of the key.

[Rusty57]

I understand your frustration. I finally have our ‘57 starting immediately. If the engine is cold I pump the accelerator pedal once to set the choke. If it if hot or even warm I just turn the key. It took a lot of attention to detail and some detective work.

My ”best guess” is that there is a fuel delivery issue. It could be spark but my money is on fuel.

Here are 3 simple checks you can make to start troubleshooting.

Pull any spark plug wire, insert a spare spark plug, and lay the plug on the engine where it has a good ground. Watch the tip of the plug while someone tries to start the engine. My guess is that you will see spark immediately. If you do not see spark until after the engine has cranked for a while, then the issue is ignition.

With the engine cold from sitting overnight, remove the air cleaner housing so you can see the top of the carburetor. Have someone slowly depress the accelerator pedal to the floor and release it. The choke plate should snap shut. There should be some resistance when you try to push to open. If it does not close fully or can easily be moved open, the choke needs adjusted to richer. It could be that the choke spring has failed.

One last check is to hold the choke plate open and look down the primary throttle bores while someone depresses the accelerator pedal. You should see gasoline squirt out of the accelerator pump discharge nozzles. If you do not see fuel being discharged the accelerator pump is either bad or the linkage is not activating it.

On our ‘57 I had to crank and crank or use the electric auxiliary fuel pump to fill the float bowls on the Holley before it would start. What I finally found was that the diaphragm on the accelerator pump was leaking. It would let all of the gasoline slowly drain out of the primary float bowl.

[jtschug]

Even a perfectly tuned carburetor will allow the fuel to evaporate over time, so even the cars in those youtube videos will require some cranking to refill the float bowls if they have been sitting for weeks. Also don't assume that those cars are just like modern cars which start with a turn of a key. Most have their own little quirks including a number of pumps on the accelerator and sometimes a crack of the throttle while cranking.

That said, you say it *always* requires a lot of cranking to start. I doubt your Pertronix is to blame. Those things either work or they don't. I've had Pertronix on my engines for 30 years, and they work better than points (as long as they are wired up correctly). Are they are replacement for a MSD Digital 6AL spark box? No. But most people don't need that. I agree with Rusty, this is probably a carburetor adjustment, and most likely it is some choke enrichment. Some Holley automatic chokes have a little piston which allows the choke to be shut completely after it is set (with one full push of the throttle) and then this piston cracks the choke plate as soon as the engine starts to prevent flooding. So if this is a nine year old Holley 4160 style "classic" carb, I expect it has this feature. Easy novice thing to do: take the air cleaner off when the engine is cold, and on the inside of the car, push the pedal to the floor and look to see if the choke closes. If it doesn't, push the lever by hand on the side of the carb. Does it close now? Sometimes when putting on an aftermarket carb, the throttle linkage doesn't allow the carb to fully open, this can prevent the choke from "setting" Disconnect the throttle linkage and cycle the lever again, does the choke close? If this closes the choke, you are a throttle linkage adjustment away from easier starts.

If the choke does not close even with the linkage disconnected, then move over to the passenger side of the carb. The black plastic cap adjusts the choke. It should have a couple wires connected to it. To adjust this, loosen the three screws (don't remove) around the black cap. Twisting clockwise "richens" the choke meaning it makes the choke plate close more and remain closed longer. Small adjustments make a difference here. The adjustment range is +/- 20°. Adjust it just enough to get the choke plate to close. If you need to adjust this. Afterwards start the car with the air cleaner off and let it run until the choke opens up. Make sure the choke opens all the way.

[abaucom]

Thanks much to the both of you.
I am going to copy this email and take it with me next time the car goes into the shop.
I will wait until the Fall. I am registered to show at a number of car events this season and it would be nice not to have the car in a shop this season.
So with your input, my Bird will be back in the shop again this coming Fall. Thanks again.

[Rusty57]

Let us know what you determine.