1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
Hello, once again an electrical stumper has me in its grips. Battery issues are difficult enough, now I have a complete electrical failure. Here is what happened. I have a 2 year old Die Hard Group 29NF. I keep it on a battery tender. I went to start the car for a weekly car show, so it is being driven. The interior light lit when I opened the door. Turned on the ignition, used the electric fuel; pump to prime the carb, as I always do. Turned the pump off, Turned the key to start, made a short start to crank noise with the starter, “click” then dead. Everything is dead. No lights, nothing. Yet the battery tender, I tried two of them, shows the battery fully charged. All connections are good, tight and clean, I tried a portable jumper, nothing. I cannot get jumper cables from another vehicle to the car where it sits.
I believe the battery may be shot, and there is a surface charge that “tricks” the battery tender into believing the battery is charged. Could this be it? Or could there be some master fuse or something along that line that could have gone out and rendered my entire system dead?
Getting a replacement battery is not that easy. The last place I ordered the current Die Hard is going out of business (Advance Auto Parts). NAPA will need to order one at least 1 week out, the same with Interstate. Just curious if there could be another culprit besides the battery that would render everything dead? While I was waiting for one I ordered, I thought I’d seek some more opinions. Hopefully, it is just a bad battery......again Thanks in advance.
I believe the battery may be shot, and there is a surface charge that “tricks” the battery tender into believing the battery is charged. Could this be it? Or could there be some master fuse or something along that line that could have gone out and rendered my entire system dead?
Getting a replacement battery is not that easy. The last place I ordered the current Die Hard is going out of business (Advance Auto Parts). NAPA will need to order one at least 1 week out, the same with Interstate. Just curious if there could be another culprit besides the battery that would render everything dead? While I was waiting for one I ordered, I thought I’d seek some more opinions. Hopefully, it is just a bad battery......again Thanks in advance.
Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
I strongly recommend that you get an inexpensive volt-ohm meter, Do some basic troubleshooting before you randomly start replacing parts.
Places like Harbor Freight ($5 on sale) & Northern Tool ($10) sell a basic meter. Home Depot and Lowe's sell Klein meters at reasonable prices.
My first 2 "guesses" are either a bad ground or a bad starter solenoid.
Places like Harbor Freight ($5 on sale) & Northern Tool ($10) sell a basic meter. Home Depot and Lowe's sell Klein meters at reasonable prices.
My first 2 "guesses" are either a bad ground or a bad starter solenoid.
Rusty
VTCI 13079
VTCI 13079
Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
I agree with Rusty. I’ve had this happen a few times over the decades. I’d try tapping lightly on the starter relay. It’s worked for me several times. The points inside stick together causing the symptoms you described. If this works, you can grab a new quality Motorcraft relay on Amazon for about 30 bucks.
Last edited by MarkR on Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
I'm glad to hear the batteries can be ordered again. Totally unavailable a few months ago. No there is no fusible link on the batteries on these cars like the ones introduced in the '70s.
Do you have a separate volt meter / multimeter you can test with? The batteries can have a surface charge that makes it look like it is fully charged but actually has no actual capacity. Turn the lights on and see if there is any voltage left even though the tender says there is. Could be an internal short in the battery.
Or on the off chance the starter solenoid took a dump. That's the next link in the chain. Check the voltage where the battery connects and where the ignition post is on the relay with the key on. Should have the same power there. If not the relay shorted out. $35 for a new one at any parts store.
I forgot to mention to check the incoming power at your ignition switch also for a loose connection. It gets its power directly off the solenoid.
Do you have a separate volt meter / multimeter you can test with? The batteries can have a surface charge that makes it look like it is fully charged but actually has no actual capacity. Turn the lights on and see if there is any voltage left even though the tender says there is. Could be an internal short in the battery.
Or on the off chance the starter solenoid took a dump. That's the next link in the chain. Check the voltage where the battery connects and where the ignition post is on the relay with the key on. Should have the same power there. If not the relay shorted out. $35 for a new one at any parts store.
I forgot to mention to check the incoming power at your ignition switch also for a loose connection. It gets its power directly off the solenoid.
VTCI # 13223
Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
So, the starter solenoid could impact the lights, and all of the other electrical components? Even the interior light does not come on when I open the door. I did not know that the entire electrical system runs through the solenoid. But, what I know about the electrical system is just about zilch. I am going to remove the battery and take it to Firestone and have them test it. If the battery is good, I will replace the solenoid. Everything else is tight and clean. If that does not work, could the ignition be the culprit? I just didn't think a bad ignition would impact the lights. But that do I know? Thanks all for the ideas and input.
Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
If you have a wiring diagram you can see that all the power for the car goes through the 2 battery cables. The positive goes to the solenoid. The negative goes to ground on the firewall. There is also a second ground cable from the firewall to the engine.
Start by checking voltage at the ends of those cables.
Have you removed and cleaned the battery cable clamps and battery posts?
Once again, I strongly encourage you to get an inexpensive volt-ohm meter and spend some time on YouTube learning the basics of troubleshooting. Even a simple test light will tell you a lot.
Start by checking voltage at the ends of those cables.
Have you removed and cleaned the battery cable clamps and battery posts?
Once again, I strongly encourage you to get an inexpensive volt-ohm meter and spend some time on YouTube learning the basics of troubleshooting. Even a simple test light will tell you a lot.
Rusty
VTCI 13079
VTCI 13079
Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
Yes it is possible the connection from the solenoid to the ignition switch could be the culprit also.
VTCI # 13223
Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
Have you tried a different battery? Can you take one out of another car and try it. Or beg or borrow (not steal) another battery from a friend ? Just to check things out.
1956 Fiesta Red 312
1954 Ford Victoria 312
1948 Ford Convertible Street Rod 302
1954 Ford Victoria 312
1948 Ford Convertible Street Rod 302
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Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
A bad starter solenoid will not cause complete loss of power to the car. I would check the ground from the engine to the firewall and the ground of the wire from the firewall to the negative battery cable.
This assumes the car is wired as original. If not then you have a lot more work to figure out what is wrong.
Lew Bachman
1957 Thunderbird
This assumes the car is wired as original. If not then you have a lot more work to figure out what is wrong.
Lew Bachman
1957 Thunderbird
Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
Hi Lew,
Thanks for catching this point. I agree that there should be power to both the light switch and the ignition switch at all times. That power feed is directly from the same terminal where the positive battery cable attaches to the starter relay aka solenoid. (Ford calls it a Starter Relay in the wiring diagrams.)
A failed starter relay should not affect the power feed to the rest of the car.
My best guesses are :
1) Bad ground at firewall
2) Dirty/corroded battery terminals
3) Discharged battery/maybe bad
Hopefully the Original Poster will be able to get a meter or a test light to help troubleshoot.
Thanks for catching this point. I agree that there should be power to both the light switch and the ignition switch at all times. That power feed is directly from the same terminal where the positive battery cable attaches to the starter relay aka solenoid. (Ford calls it a Starter Relay in the wiring diagrams.)
A failed starter relay should not affect the power feed to the rest of the car.
My best guesses are :
1) Bad ground at firewall
2) Dirty/corroded battery terminals
3) Discharged battery/maybe bad
Hopefully the Original Poster will be able to get a meter or a test light to help troubleshoot.
Rusty
VTCI 13079
VTCI 13079
Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
I think I jumped the gun suggesting it was the solenoid. It is a terminal to distribute the power. I have never seen a battery just go that dead when stressed by trying to start but it is possible that it had an internal short.
Firewall ground may look good as he stated in the original post but still could be bad. A burned connection is not always easy to see. I can't remember if there are two separate leads from the solenoid, one to the ignition switch and another to the light switch? If that is the case, then both going bad at the same time is not likely.
Firewall ground may look good as he stated in the original post but still could be bad. A burned connection is not always easy to see. I can't remember if there are two separate leads from the solenoid, one to the ignition switch and another to the light switch? If that is the case, then both going bad at the same time is not likely.
VTCI # 13223
Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
Based on the Jim Osborn wring schematic power is fed to the light switch from the battery terminal on the starter relay. Under the dash there is a wire from the battery terminal on the light switch to the battery terminal on the ignition switch.
Unless a previous owner got creative with the wiring!
Without a voltmeter or at least a test light he is chasing ghosts.
Unless a previous owner got creative with the wiring!
Without a voltmeter or at least a test light he is chasing ghosts.
Rusty
VTCI 13079
VTCI 13079
Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
Multimeters are not expensive and an indispensable tool. He is in for a great learning experience as has he admitted. It is not a catastrophic failure just a broken link in the electrical chain as everything else worked just before he tried to start it.
VTCI # 13223
Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
Thank you all for the info and suggestions. These forums are great. Given what was here I tried a few things. I used a simple circuit tester. One with a negative clip and a positive needle and an integrated light. It lit up on the battery with the needle on the positive and the clip on the neg. Worked when i kept the positive on the terminal and and the negative where the negative battery cable ground on the firewall. Putting the needle on the positive connection at the solenoid and the negative on the battery...nothing. Whacked on the solenoid a few times, which was suggested, and the indicator lit up with the positive on the solenoid. I tried the ignition..heard the solenoid "click" and dead. Whacked on the solenoid a few times. Tried the ignition... click...everything dead. Whacked on the solenoid. Turned on the headlights....they worked. The interior light came on when I opened the door. Touched the key...click..everything dead. Whack whack whack again, headlights came on. Bought a battery tester (another suggestion) It showed the battery at 30% but good. It had been on a battery tender which should fully charged. A second battery tender showed the same. I am going to o replace the battery cables, and the solenoid and see what happens. Hopefully that does it. I was able to order an Interstate group 29 NF, it arrived yesterday at the dealer. If the new solenoid and cables do not solve the issue, hopefully, adding a new battery will do the trick. If those do not work, then perhaps it could be the ignition switch? I am amazed that the solenoid seemed to short out the system perhaps and nothing worked. Whatever happened inside when I whacked it with a wrench seemed to open the circuit, but it shorted (I guess) when I tried to either the start or "accessory" on the ignition. I think it must be the solenoid because whacking on it restores the current to the lights, etc. I'll let you all know...and thanks again.
Re: 1957 Electrical Problems-Car Completely Dead
Excellent! I think you narrowed it down. I would never have thought that with those connections at the solenoid being just positive would not pass the current on. A weird internal short that would negate those connections is something I've never seen. A whack on a motor or starter often wakes them up but solenoids are known for acting up. Many on a road trip keep one in their parts stash.
VTCI # 13223
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