Cylinder Head Differnces?

[Mheiron]

Hi y’all haven’t been on the forum in awhile.

I’ve been super busy with 4 project cars at the moment and my favorite is the 63 M code that has been receiving the least attention.

Any way I’ve been working on a 390FE that just got back from the machinist. I want to add a roller cam but stick with original heads. More on that later. I’ll have to see how it goes.

I have 2 sets of cylinder heads from 60’s era 390’s out of M code 6v Thunderbirds (maybe).

I’ve compared them and one is 6090D and one is 6090C.

Both heads are ~58 cc combustion chambers with 1.5 and 2.0” valves.

One set is C2SE. The other is COAE.

Any idea if there are any other difference?

I had the impression the C designation was a Ford “special” head.

Thanks for any info!

[Alan H. Tast]

Information on heads used for the "M"-series engines at best is confusing and often misleading. You asked about this topic back in 2016 - at that time we determined you have a set of C0AE 6090-D heads cast in September 1961 - those were used on the '60 360hp HiPo engine and carried over for '61 full-size 390 HiPo engines:
viewtopic.php?p=80730&hilit=6090#p80730

And see the response by Jim Wulf to your post from 2019 about C2SE-A vs -B and -C heads, reprinted below in part:
viewtopic.php?p=106795#p106795

You may already be aware of this, but the 6090-C heads are actually not the correct heads for a 6V Thunderbird 390. The only correct head for the 62-63 Thunderbird M Codes is a 6090-A and the "A" is actually stamped into the head, not embossed/cast as is found in the "B" and "C" heads which were installed on 406 motors. Note the differences in the combustion chamber sizes of the various heads. VTCI member and 62 M Code SR owner Joe Arotta and I have researched this thoroughly in the past couple of months and have come to the above conclusions based on research of available literature, conversations with acknowledged FE motor experts, and observations of known original M Code motors.

Text from Jim's post notes that he had a chart attached to the response, but that has since disappeared. Jim, can you repost the chart?

There were some other posts pointing to 390-4v Z-code cars from January '63 using C3AE 6090-C heads, which were a higher-compression head used on 390-4v T-bird engines after the beginning of January '63 (prior used C1SE 6090-A):
viewtopic.php?p=54626&hilit=C3AE+6090#p54626

From https://www.mustangtek.com/heads/Heads.html - Verification needed on valve and port sizes; there are Combustion Chamber size differences for each of the heads listed below, along with information on the C3AE-C heads.

C0AE-6090-D - 60 352HP-360hp, 61-62 390HP
Valves 2.02" / 1.55"
Intake port 2.34 x 1.34 - Exhaust port 1.84 x 1.28
Combustion Chamber - 59.7cc

C1SE-6090-A - 61-64 390 Thunderbird, 61 352 (this is the Z-code 390-4v head)
Valves 2.02" / 1.55"
Intake port 2.34 x 1.34 - Exhaust port 1.84 x 1.28
Combustion Chamber - 71cc

C2SE-6090-A - 62-63 390 6v T-birds, Late 62 full-size 390HP w/flat-top pistons
Valves 2.02" / 1.55"
Intake port 2.34 x 1.34 - Exhaust port 1.84 x 1.28
Combustion Chamber - 65.5cc

C2SE-6090-B - early 62 full-size 406 4v & 6v
Valves 2.02" / 1.55"
Intake port 2.34 x 1.34 - Exhaust port 1.84 x 1.28
Combustion Chamber - 62.5cc

C2SE-6090-C - late 62 - 63 full-size 406 4v, 62 early 63 full-size 406 6v
Valves 2.02" / 1.55"
Intake port 2.34 x 1.34 - Exhaust port 1.84 x 1.28
Combustion Chamber - 64.0cc

C3AE-6090-C (?) - Unconfirmed Application. Information may or may not be complete or accurate - late 63 406 6v, 62 early 63 406 6v
Valves 2.02" / 1.64"
Intake port 2.34 x 1.34 - Exhaust port 1.84 x 1.28
Combustion Chamber - 56.4cc
w/Spring cups

(no P/N given) - assumed this is for C3AE-6090-C - Unconfirmed Application. Information may or may not be complete or accurate - late 63 390 (72cc combustion chamber)
Valves 2.02" / 1.55"
Intake port 2.34 x 1.34 - Exhaust port 1.84 x 1.28
Combustion Chamber - 72cc (High altitude DSO has 68cc combustion chamber)
w/o Spring cups

I'm still searching for photos or drawings showing the physical differences in the shape/size of the combustion chambers for comparison of the C2SE-A, -B and -C heads. I'm also searching for one or two sets of C2SE-A heads for my personal use.

[Jim Wulf]

Here it is Alan:

[Alan H. Tast]

Jim - Merci' beaucoup (?-pardon my French) - looks like the same info from the mustangtek.com web page which was referenced in previous responses, which in part are derived from Ford MPCs of the period.
Now to correlate compression ratios with piston-head combinations to really geek this out.