Concours Judging 1963 M Convertible that looks like Roadster

[Giantrider]

If I go to VTCI Convention this year and get my car judged.

Will the modifications to the car count against me?

The car is a 3Y85M

But has Kelsey Hayes. No skirts
Tonneau Cover and has Roadster badging

Got Gate Release and it did not come with AC.

But AC Selectaire. (With 61-62 Vent) installed.

What to do? Thanks

Ps if I changed out Kelsey’s for a more modern Mag wheel is that also bad to do.

Thanks

[Alan H. Tast]

1. K-H wires were a factory and dealer option.
2. No skirts with wires is correct. Skirts with wires = not correct. 1 modification point deduction if both are on a car I'm judging.
3. Tonneau by itself was a dealer-available option and typically came with the emblem.
4. A/C installation in a car originally without A/C is OK provided parts correct for model year are installed. The 63 style outlet can easily be found and can replace the older version. You can easily avoid a potential modification point deduction by changing it out. Not many know the A/C system was available as a dealer option (at least for 61-62) but was very expensive to install.
5. Modern or non-OEM wheels like mag wheels will get a 1-point modification deduction in Primary Division for the set. You need to read the Concours Rules Vol. 1 for what is acceptable in Touring and Drivers Divisions. My opinion here-why change from one of the most beautiful and desirable wheels on 61-63 to something else?

You need to read the Concours Rules to understand there is a limited number of modification point deductions that would be assessed on the show field and in the tally room. A person may have a dozen modifications made but the maximum number actually taken depends on what individual sections are being tallied. Explanation would take too long for me to type out on my phone right now.

Overall, if you keep the wires and Tonneau on, and if you don't change out the A/C outlet, you'll be just fine in a judged setting.

[Ducksface]

There is no bad. They allowed a 63 false m code with a only the center carb working and aftermarket chrome under the hood to get a top honor of (I think, Alan can correct me) SENIOR at the last meet.
Go, have a good time, and get a trophy.

My past SENIOR, a long time ago, is a standard 10/31/62 build date, 63 convertible equipped as an m code roadster in Tucson Yellow. My car is wrong from 200feet away.

Go and don't worry.
Authentic isn't required.
I could install a Chevy LS under the hood and lose but three(Alan can correct me) points.

[Giantrider]

Thanks guys.

I’ll keep the wires. I’ll need to get new Coker tires with 1” WW.

My late father’s mechanic Chuck Mill - was the mechanic for Jerry Capizzi’s cars. So he will be working on car. He was impressed with the car and thinks its a number 1.

The one issue will be me fitting into l the car as I’m
6-7” with a big gut. My inseam is 32”.

A fellow member here - Cliff Rankin has shown a way to use metal straps on floor to move the seat back without modding the floor bolts.

Might lose the tonneau as I need to have seat moved back.
Personally not a problem for me.

I also bought a replacement steering wheel if my gut is in the way. But that’s a worst case scenario.

One last question. Where to find 63 ac vent in great shape.

Again thanks for your help.

[Ducksface]

I've gone as far as to shave the 'tubeless' from my tires on my Kelsey's.
No one cares but me.

My cokers drive just fine. Don't let anyone sway you with their bias-ply bias....


I have considered shortening a steering column instead of your seat/steering wheel route. I think it would be easier than seat/tonneau/new wheel. At 6'4/35" inseam and a smaller gut than yours, I haven't had to, but I did have to consider such.
I bet a steering column cuts shorter pretty easily.

[Alan H. Tast]

While more appropriate for discussion in the Modified portion of the Forum, shortening the column and retaining factory appearance is something that could be worthy of pursuing, and certainly worthy of developing a tech article in the Scoop (as if I even have time for that).

Place a wanted listing in the For Sale section of the Forum for the 63 A/C outlet. I know they are out there if you find someone parting out a 63 or happens to have a spare lying around. Well over half of 63 production had A/C.

[Ducksface]

I have access to a spare 63 column. I'll investigate.

[Giantrider]

I did get a 63 ac vent on EBay. But
It’s in fair shape. The recessed painted area is flaked off in areas.

Probably be easier to just get a restored part - than get it rechromed and someone repaint the black areas

Thanks for all the help

[Cliff Rankin]

Steve, post a picture of the incorrect one please

[Giantrider]

Here is 1962 vent
As well as Selectaire under hood

Thanks

[Alan H. Tast]

Here is 1962 vent
As well as Selectaire under hood

63 voltage reg cover-62 decal VTCI Forum 20240220 IMG_3692.jpeg (22.46 KiB) Viewed 165 times

Thanks

From this photo I'm not seeing the correct '63-style system with the sight glass in between the condenser and high-pressure hose connection (which your photo doesn't show). An overall view of hoses, A/C compressor and service valve assemblies would be helpful to determine what you have. In addition, the A/C charge plate should be banded to the hoses between the compressor and the shock tower brace where you currently have it - see the '63 system photo below.

One major spotting feature for a '62-style A/C setup is that it has a small cylinder supported off the side of the compressor with a metal bracket for one of the lines to attach to.

'62-style hose compressor with 'muffler'/bracket. Note the service valve held in place with "Roto-Lock" connections:

'62-style A/C compressor w/ 'muffler'-bracket

Another spotting feature for early compressors is use of two Allen-head cap screws to hold the service valves to the compressor cylinder head - '61s used them along with '62s - the cutover date for the "Roto-Lock" valve remains to be determined, but it happened sometime during 1962 as there are examples of '62s with both styles.

60-64 York A/C Compressor Head-Valves (from 1960-64 Ford Car Parts & Accys Catalog-Illustrations)

60-64 Tecumseh A/C Compressor Head-Valves (from 1960-64 Ford Car Parts & Accys Catalog-Illustrations)

'61 with '63-style hose setup. Note the compressor has "Roto-Lock" connections:

'61 w/ '63 A/C hose setup

'63-style hose setup with sight glass at condenser high-pressure connection, compressor with "Roto-Lock" connections. Note the location of the A/C charge tag between the compressor and shock tower brace:

'63 A/C hose setup

One of the things I see quite often as an authenticity judge and, by extension overall judging experience over 4 decades, is the incorrect application/use of decals. Looking at the A/C line photo I can see the end of the voltage regulator cover. Knowing it's a '63 with an alternator, it looks like someone installed an incorrect decal to replicate the original screen-printed markings on your cover.

Here's what an original '61-'62 voltage regulator looks like with the C2SF-10505-C 35-amp markings:

Original 62 C2SF 10505-A 35-amp generator regulator cover with silver graphics

62 generator regulator-cover-graphics.jpg (22.69 KiB) Viewed 165 times

Here's what a '62 generator voltage regulator cover looks like with a reproduction C2AF-10505-B 30-amp blue graphics decal (BTW the blue is too dark to be a match to the original '63 silk-screened markings):

62 C2AF-10505-B 30-amp voltage regulator cover with blue graphics (reproduction decal)

Compare this with an unrestored '63 C3XF-10316-A regulator to see the difference in color of the graphics:

63 alternator voltage regulator C3XF 10316-A cover with blue graphics (unrestored original)

Here's what a '63 voltage regulator cover looks like with a reproduction C4TF-10316-A '64-numbered silver graphics decal, which would be acceptable as a service replacement:

63 alternator voltage regulator C$TF 10316-A cover with '64-numbered silver graphics (reproduction decal)

63 alternator regulator-cover-graphics.jpg (20.49 KiB) Viewed 165 times

And here's what a '63 voltage regulator cover with markings looks like with the C3TF 10316-B yellow graphics decal - the yellow indicates a heavy-duty component and would be appropriate for the higher-output alternators:

63 alternator voltage regulator C3TF 10316-A cover with yellow graphics (reproduction decal)

Luckily for you, the incorrect decal can be removed with use of a heat gun to soften the adhesive, and peel the plastic decal film off. With some adhesive remover on a rag you can remove the residue and then replace it with a more-correct decal, or find a reproduction voltage regulator cover which has the graphics silk-screened onto it like original through places like AMK or Marti Auto Works (at least that's what I did for my restoration almost 20 years ago).


Information on original/factory installation of voltage regulators and usage of ID markings are in VTCI's 1961-1963 Original Factory Specifications (OFS) manual.

This provides a convenient segue for me to announce that VTCI's Country Store is back up and running for members to order copies of the OFS manual and even download a copy of Volume 1-Concours Rules at the webpage linked below:

https://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net/ ... _store.htm