Fuel problem

[Rusty57]

Now for the really stupid questions. I am good at those.

Have you tired to blow air back to the tank through the fuel line?

Hove you watched fuel flow out of the fuel line if there is slight air pressure applied to the tank?

Includes the section of hose in these tests.

[Jim Yergin]

Turns out it was the mechanical fuel pump. Today I installed an already rebuilt pump made in USA. The flow test produced a full pint in less than 15 seconds. Well within the shop manual requirement of one pint within 30 seconds.
Both my original pump and the one I rebuilt had the same one piece arms showing what I thought were just slight wear marks. They were both double action pumps. The one I just installed is a single action pump (I changed to electric wipers some time ago) and its arm is the same shape as the other two but it is made up of multiple pieces held together with a riveted bracket on the end. I wonder if my first two pumps arms were worn just enough that they weren't getting full strokes while the other design holds up better. Or maybe I just did something wrong in my rebuild.
In any event I am happy to have fixed the problem and I thank everyone very much for their suggestions.
Jim Yergin

[ward 57]

I may catch heck from the ASPCA but 'that's one way to skin a cat'. Going to the electric wipers allowed you to simplify the plumbing. My rebuilt pump works great and my wipers still work great on vacuum.

[Rusty57]

That is great news!

A fuel pump diaphragm has a very small displacement per stroke. It is much less than the amount we typically manually move the lever arm by hand when we handle a pump. I could not find a reference to confirm this but I seem to remember it is under .060”. That is why the diaphragm will last so long. It also explains why small amounts of wear throughout the linkage can have an impact on capacity and flow rate.

This is a newbie to Y-block question. Is the pump eccentric more susceptible to wear on these engines compared to a camshaft lobe that drives a fuel pump?

[CSPIDY]

This is a newbie to Y-block question. Is the pump eccentric more susceptible to wear on these engines compared to a camshaft lobe that drives a fuel pump?

Never heard of one wearing out but it’s possible
I would think that it would be the exception
how many miles are on it?

[willcarter]

Glad to hear you got your problem worked out!

Since I may also be chasing a fuel issue: could you post the name/brand/model of your third (good) fuel pump? The “made in the USA” one that was with my car needed to be rebuilt, so I had a new one installed instead. It sounds like it’s worth rebuilding mine anyway, either to have it reinstalled in place of my new one or just to sell it. It would be helpful to know which yours is for comparison. Other than the “made in USA” stamping on mine, I can’t tell what brand it is, nor am I adept enough to know whether mine is a single action or double action. A picture of mine is attached; but it would also be helpful to know what yours is. Thanks!

Turns out it was the mechanical fuel pump. Today I installed an already rebuilt pump made in USA. The flow test produced a full pint in less than 15 seconds. Well within the shop manual requirement of one pint within 30 seconds.
Both my original pump and the one I rebuilt had the same one piece arms showing what I thought were just slight wear marks. They were both double action pumps. The one I just installed is a single action pump (I changed to electric wipers some time ago) and its arm is the same shape as the other two but it is made up of multiple pieces held together with a riveted bracket on the end. I wonder if my first two pumps arms were worn just enough that they weren't getting full strokes while the other design holds up better. Or maybe I just did something wrong in my rebuild.
In any event I am happy to have fixed the problem and I thank everyone very much for their suggestions.
Jim Yergin

[ward 57]

That is most definitely a dual action pump. Mine is an original AC but Ford used a couple of other USA makers for the parts depts. as replacements and I think carters were installed by the factory also. No expert on this. When I bought my replacement carb from Ford in the early 70s I got an exact fit and even improved attaching fuel lines. I had my shop diagnose my original as I kept they stated it looked like it had been in a fire. Hmm explains why it never worked right after the rebuild and had to replace. When I looked again I realized why my cable from the solenoid to the starter had missing insulation. Took me years to figure out why. Good engine from a professional rebuilder but being young & dumb used a Mutt & Jeff shop. Had to replace the spark plug heat shields, original fuel filter and some other things. But that was 40+ yrs ago so I could get original Ford parts.

[Jimntempe]

Glad to hear you got your problem worked out!

Since I may also be chasing a fuel issue: could you post the name/brand/model of your third (good) fuel pump? The “made in the USA” one that was with my car needed to be rebuilt, so I had a new one installed instead. It sounds like it’s worth rebuilding mine anyway, either to have it reinstalled in place of my new one or just to sell it. It would be helpful to know which yours is for comparison. Other than the “made in USA” stamping on mine, I can’t tell what brand it is, nor am I adept enough to know whether mine is a single action or double action. A picture of mine is attached; but it would also be helpful to know what yours is. Thanks!

Turns out it was the mechanical fuel pump. Today I installed an already rebuilt pump made in USA. The flow test produced a full pint in less than 15 seconds. Well within the shop manual requirement of one pint within 30 seconds.
Both my original pump and the one I rebuilt had the same one piece arms showing what I thought were just slight wear marks. They were both double action pumps. The one I just installed is a single action pump (I changed to electric wipers some time ago) and its arm is the same shape as the other two but it is made up of multiple pieces held together with a riveted bracket on the end. I wonder if my first two pumps arms were worn just enough that they weren't getting full strokes while the other design holds up better. Or maybe I just did something wrong in my rebuild.
In any event I am happy to have fixed the problem and I thank everyone very much for their suggestions.
Jim Yergin

Dual action pumps are ones that have the vacuum pump part on the top to provide a boost to run the wipers. It makes no difference to fuel pumping capability whether it's dual action or single action but of course if you put a single action pump on it won't have the vacuum pumping capabilities to augment the engine vacuum for the wipers. I would assume some people who install electric wipers might also install a single action pump just to clean up the engine compartment.

[MarkR]

I have the electric wipers with a rebuilt dual action fuel pump on the 55.I left the vacuum hose in place going into the firewall and just plugged it off under the dash. So it looks original. Not that it looks original with a 57 air cleaner. .

[Jim Yergin]

Glad to hear you got your problem worked out!

Since I may also be chasing a fuel issue: could you post the name/brand/model of your third (good) fuel pump? The “made in the USA” one that was with my car needed to be rebuilt, so I had a new one installed instead. It sounds like it’s worth rebuilding mine anyway, either to have it reinstalled in place of my new one or just to sell it. It would be helpful to know which yours is for comparison. Other than the “made in USA” stamping on mine, I can’t tell what brand it is, nor am I adept enough to know whether mine is a single action or double action. A picture of mine is attached; but it would also be helpful to know what yours is. Thanks!

willcarter,
I purchased my pump from an ebay seller. There is no manufacturer name on it, just says made in the USA. I believe it is a rebuilt NORS.
Jim Yergin

[willcarter]

Thanks, Jim.

Question for everyone: assuming I go the route of getting a rebuilt “made in the USA” pump, it would be far beyond my own capacity and comfort level to try to install it myself. But from looking at it and glancing at a couple of videos, it seems like it would require just average mechanical competence to do it properly. I am wondering, then, whether I’d need to take it to a shop that specializes in T-Birds specifically or older/classic cars generally or whether any “regular” mechanic would be able to figure it out. But I’m also guessing that most regular mechanics lack much experience with mechanical fuel pumps these days…

Glad to hear you got your problem worked out!

Since I may also be chasing a fuel issue: could you post the name/brand/model of your third (good) fuel pump? The “made in the USA” one that was with my car needed to be rebuilt, so I had a new one installed instead. It sounds like it’s worth rebuilding mine anyway, either to have it reinstalled in place of my new one or just to sell it. It would be helpful to know which yours is for comparison. Other than the “made in USA” stamping on mine, I can’t tell what brand it is, nor am I adept enough to know whether mine is a single action or double action. A picture of mine is attached; but it would also be helpful to know what yours is. Thanks!

willcarter,
I purchased my pump from an ebay seller. There is no manufacturer name on it, just says made in the USA. I believe it is a rebuilt NORS.
Jim Yergin

[MarkR]

I was just browsing in my NAPA account and see they apparently have readily available Carter (made in USA) dual action fuel pumps for our birds for $175.00.
part number NNP B0089P.
Says I can pick one up locally here in Vegas tomorrow or it will be here free shipping by Tuesday.
I’m always impressed with what’s available at Napa for our cars. .I don’t need one. just posting the info.

[ward 57]

It's really not a big project. You can do it without getting under the car. Set the engine at TDC and unbolt the power steering pump. It can then be moved forward out of the way then you can get easy access to the mounting bolts with a socket wrench. When installing just make sure you tilt the lever down to get it under the cam.

[289ace]

I was just browsing in my NAPA account and see they apparently have readily available Carter (made in USA) dual action fuel pumps for our birds for $175.00.
part number NNP B0089P.
Says I can pick one up locally here in Vegas tomorrow or it will be here free shipping by Tuesday.
I’m always impressed with what’s available at Napa for our cars. .I don’t need one. just posting the info.

Thanks for the heads up. I'm in the market for one as the new one I bought through a Tbird vendor is not getting the job done. A question for you; How do you know the NAPA one is made in the US? I can't find anything on the NAPA site that confirms that, and I am finding many on line references to the Carter pumps being made in China. Additionally, in looking through the rebuilders web sites, they seem to say if phillips head screws are used, it is probably a China made pump and the NAPA ones show phillips heads. I hope the Carters at NAPA are in fact US made as I will buy one today if so, but haven't found anything yet to positively confirm.

[MarkR]

I was just browsing in my NAPA account and see they apparently have readily available Carter (made in USA) dual action fuel pumps for our birds for $175.00.
part number NNP B0089P.
Says I can pick one up locally here in Vegas tomorrow or it will be here free shipping by Tuesday.
I’m always impressed with what’s available at Napa for our cars. .I don’t need one. just posting the info.

Thanks for the heads up. I'm in the market for one as the new one I bought through a Tbird vendor is not getting the job done. A question for you; How do you know the NAPA one is made in the US? I can't find anything on the NAPA site that confirms that, and I am finding many don line references to the Carter pumps being made in China. Additionally, in looking through the rebuilders web sites, they seem to say if phillips head screws are used, it is probably a China made pump and the NAPA ones show phillips heads. I hope the Carters at NAPA are in fact US made as I will buy one today if so, but haven't found anything yet to positively confirm.

Before I posted the NAPA info I did an online search to verify where Carters are made. I found numerous hits for the Carter company directly. All stated their pumps are made in the USA. Logansport, Indiana. I had always heard they were made here but wanted to double check before I posted.
Since you found other references to them being made offshore maybe the information at their website is not accurate any longer. I apologize if this is the case.