1962 convertible top motor

[espo35]

My 62 is doing the following- The trunk unlatch cycle works fine, but the rear deck won't open. If I bypass the relay, it opens, but the jumper gets REALLY hot. Also, the top open works very slowly. My guess is that the pump is drawing too much juice... but, why does the deck open if I bypass the relay? Does the buss bar supply more than the relay? Or does the relay have some sort of cut-out protection (circuit breaker?) that the buss bar doesn't?

Also, my manual says max draw from the pump is 54-60 amps. I don't have an inductive ammeter, but I do note that the 10 gauge wires to the motor are getting warm. Not sure if this is normal.

[dan42]

Dont know if your system is the same as a 64. On my 64 had 3 relay related problems causing the deck not to open except when using a jumper wire or wiggling connections. First time was a broken blade on the relay that would sometime make connection when moved; (Replaced relay) Second problem was blade beside clip inside rubber boot and did not always make a good connection. ( double check all connections to make sure they are secure). and third problem was a loose spade on the new relay referenced to in the first problem (The vendor replaced the defective relay at no charge). Hope this helps because the electrics on the top can drive you crazy!

[espo35]

I have a new relay on order, but it is one I've already replaced so.... I'm not super hopeful. The fact that I can open the deck by jumping past it makes me suspicious of it, though.

[espo35]

As a follow up....it was BOTH. The pump was drawing too much juice, which smoked The new relay. Replaced both and top working at record speed!

[orthodoc]

I'd like to bring this one back to life. I am working on my 63 top. The pump is about 10 years old and had been working great. I just replaced my deck cylinders and was cycling the air out...I've been very careful to only cycle one cycle at a time then wait several minutes for it to cool. Anyway, the pump quit on me. The motor isn't even hot. I can hear the solenoids click, tested power to the pump and that is all ok. So I don't think this is a limit switch or relay issue. From what I've read, this is likely the internal circuit breaker in the pump motor.

Does anyone have information on getting the motor away from the pump body or accessing this circuit breaker if it doesn't reset? Can this be done without disconnecting the hydraulic lines from the actual pump?

[orthodoc]

One new piece of information here; when I put a test light on the yellow and red leads to the motor, both yellow and red each get power both when pushing the top switch down as well as up. Is this correct? I can’t imagine there is an electrical issue as it worked perfectly before and I was only changing out the cylinders. Strange though.

I looked at my wiring and too manual and I can’t make sense if both sides should be energized at both positions of the switch.

I also do hear clicking of the solenoids and have tested that the top solenoids are getting energized appropriately.

[orthodoc]

Further updates:
It is, in fact the motor. Strange coincidence it failed right after I replaced the cylinders. I guess perhaps it was just working harder with less cylinder leak through.

The commutator wire totally sheared off. Looks like there has been so wear in there for a while.

My questions now are:
Is it worth trying to repair this 10-12 yo motor?

If not, which is the best motor to buy? Per what I see they all look similar at Pats, Macs, Larrys etc. I do see some that are “high capacity,” is this different than stock?

Thanks for the help. Always a project!

[Jim Wulf]

Definitely get the the high capacity pump. The cheaper one just won’t cut it on a Thunderbird.

[orthodoc]

Thanks, Jim

I think I’ll pick up the high capacity one along with the bleeding kit from convertible service as they seem to have the best warranty at 5 years. Still can’t believe how the motor just tore itself apart. So fortunate it didn’t happen with the deck down

[Karl]

G'day orthodoc.

I was thinking about your problem. Now I know nothing about convertibles but you said that there seemed to be power to both wires for the one motor at the same time. Maybe there is a problem with the switch, it may be supplying power to both wires.
If this is the case maybe this is why the motor has failed.
Like I said I know nothing about how the convertible top works.
I would hate to see you loose a new motor due to a faulty switch.

Karl.

[orthodoc]

Karl,
I was perplexed by this as well and actually lost sleep this weekend thinking about why that would be. I went out and retested on 3 separate occasions and the yellow and red wires function as per the diagrams. With the toggle switch in the up position power is only to the yellow, down is red. So, I just made a mistake with my initial test.

[orthodoc]

My new motor came in today and the fill plug is set at the 9 O’ clock position. My previous motor was around the 11 O’clock position. This obviously effects the max fill volume. Any thoughts on which is correct? Easy to change, I just want to make it correct

[tbird]

You should have the fill plug at the 10-11 o'clock position so the pump has a good supply of oil but is not over filled.

Jim

[myird]

You can use a jumper for a temp fix to get the deck lid open but it will get very hot. You need to change out the relay, have you ever opened up one of the relays? Its a set of points inside, open one when you get a bad one, the metal cup causes condensation inside the cup, and the points take a crap. Relays run around $50. I was tired of my top failing so I went to The Thunderbird Ranch on line and purchased his electronic relay system. i have not had one issue in 3 years of replacing it. He is also a wealth of knowledge on tops. I have a whole set of new relays, I went electronic. Replace your relay. You can test my theory by plugging the relay wire onto another relay just to test. You have 2 prong relays and 3 prong relays, just match the plug to which ever one it is and if the it works, get a new one. Don't let the lid go all the way and hit the limit switch and trigger the next operation, just do it as a test. Good luck