1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

This area is for posting questions/information concerning 1961-63 year Thunderbirds NO FOR SALE POSTINGS

Moderator: ABQTBird

Post Reply
MN63Tbird
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:38 am
Location: Minnesota

1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

Post by MN63Tbird »

To build on an earlier thread on conversion of Single to Dual Master cylinder for a 62 Tbird , the brake booster on my 63 Tbird needs rebuilding. I put the car in storage last October knowing that the booster was starting to fail. When you press the brake pedal to put the car in gear the car wants to to stall and pedal does not want to retreat when you let off the brake. If I throttle it a bit I can overcome the stalling and get the brake to release. Once running the brake pedal is slow to return also. The PO had told me that the booster and master cylinder were rebuilt before I purchased the car and looking at the condition of the brake booster it looks like it was refurbished at least from the outside.

Anyway in the 7 years that I have had the car I have also had the brakes go out on me on 3 different occasions. Each occurrence had a different cause, two from others working on the car and one for me for forgetting to replace the brake hose by the differential before the lines split to both rear tires after I had replaced all the other hoses and brake cylinders. It ruptured but fortunately I as in a parking lot. Anyway, I am getting good at stopping a car without hydraulic brakes by downshifting and using the emergency brake. Its a skill that I dont want to continue to test.

I have seen earlier posts on going from a single to a dual master cylinder and they all suggest replacing the unit with a 67-70 Mustang dual master. The best option looks like the Wagner MC 64829 . The unit has a flat top to clear the front brace. The sources for this Rock Auto and Ebay seem to be out of stock these days. The Wagner unit apparently has the correct mounting but has a larger bore than the original single master. ABQTbird posted some great pictures on the installation and discusses the bore difference in an earlier post . I tried to search for master cylinders for 67-70 Mustanges V8 4bbl. to find another source and finally found a rebuilt unit at AutoZone https://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-tra ... 5/227066_0 I had a few questions before proceeding with the booster rebuild and master cylinder conversion next month.

The Autozone unit looks like the Wagner unit however it says that it is for manual brakes not power brakes. Does that make any difference?

Any thoughts on rebuilding the current power booster or would it be better to get 67-70 Mustang booster master cylinder combo?

Also ABQTbird are you still happy with your retrofit 7 years later ?

MN63
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code

Cliff Rankin
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:24 pm

Re: 1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

Post by Cliff Rankin »

I went with the regular looking mustang unit. Can’t say about it being manual or power Will make a difference.
I think it’s the fit to the booster and push rod clearance.
I went back with my factory booster after experimenting
Some with different set ups. You can buy a kit for the
Booster and do it yourself, it’s not hard at all. I still need
To find another brace bar as I don’t want to butcher mine
For the regular high top master cylinder. Mine stops good
And the split system gives me some peace of mind.

Cliff

MN63Tbird
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:38 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: 1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

Post by MN63Tbird »

I ordered the Autozone master cylinder for a 67-70 Mustang. It will be here this week. I saw the Wilwood type unit also and it was in the scarebird thread for disc brake conversion. It looks like it will fit but is also a hundred dollars more. The conversion does not look to hard.

MN63.
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code

MN63Tbird
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:38 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: 1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

Post by MN63Tbird »

Bummer I ordered the Autozone M1485 master cylinder which looked like a great replacement for the Wagner MC 64829 and it arrived today . Here is the image of the item that is on their online site and in the order confirmation:
Image .

However this is what was sent

Image.


It may fit the booster but I dont think it will fit my car without modifying the cross brace As Cliff mentioned

Car is in storage but a little disappointed. Thought I had found another source.

MN63
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code

User avatar
Karl
Posts: 836
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:03 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: 1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

Post by Karl »

Yeah typical with internet buying.
Karl
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop

MN63Tbird
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:38 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: 1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

Post by MN63Tbird »

There apparently are two Wagner units that would work as a dual master replacement for the 62-63 Tbirds without brace modifications. They are MC64829 as has been posted and MC73323. Both are identical in design. I called Wagner and found both are discontinued from production. That will definitely limit any additional inventory in the market.

Checking on previous posts and also post ratings on Amazon units, what is displayed on the web do not match what the vendors send. This does sound typical. There are also a couple of sketchy vendors out there selling the units with sites that sell a wide variety of other non automotive products that I would not attempt to trust.

Now starting on plan B to find a left fender brace that I could modify. I dont want to touch my current one so I could also go back to stock if I do convert to a dual .
MN63
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code

OldRusty1
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 7:32 pm

Re: 1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

Post by OldRusty1 »

Attached is a link to my previous post on my conversion to a dual Master Cylinder while retaining the original 'Jelly Jar" look with no mods required to the shock tower brace.
https://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net/ ... =6&t=16822

The Master Cylinder is available from CJ Pony parts. Pricey, but looks close to original with no mods required.
https://www.cjponyparts.com/ssbc-brakes ... /p/MC1001/

The Prop valve is readily available on a search on E-Bay searching part number A0730
Been working great since installation.
Regards,
Old Rusty1
'62 Chestnut Convertible, White Top/Chestnut Interior
VTCI #12660
Past T-Birds:
'65HT, '66TL, '63SR, '78DJE

MN63Tbird
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:38 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: 1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

Post by MN63Tbird »

Thanks OldRusty! I searched this site and the modified site a couple of times and did not find your thread.Thanks for reposting. That is another great option. The unit looks more like the original. Only CJ Pony sells the unit that is in stock as far as I can see. I found a couple of other options now in my search. They look like they will work but the appearance is not close to original. These are the current options :

Image

I was wondering looking at your photos did you use the current 3 way splitter also for the front lines and feed and use the rear of the splitter for the brake light switch? Your is painted black and I cant see a lot of definition on how you hooked those lines up. Also with drums do you need a proportioning switch or is that only for a front disc brake setup.

MN63
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code

OldRusty1
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 7:32 pm

Re: 1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

Post by OldRusty1 »

Hope the attached will answer your questions.
I have drums all around.
I went with the Prop Block for two main reasons:
1. to fine tune the brake system to preclude any premature rear wheel lock-up and
2. to facilitate installation as the existing vehicle brake lines required no modifications and only had to be repositioned to screw directly into the Prop Block. Also, the brake light switch screws directly into the Prop Block. Only two lines required fabrication - the ones from the Master Cylinder to the Prop Block.
Hope this helps.
ps. Someday I'll figure out how to rotate the photos here as the are ok on my PC.
Attachments
Prop Block Install.jpg
Prop Block Pkg Label.jpg
MC Tbird9.1.jpg
MC Tbird7.jpg
MC Tbird5.jpg
MC Tbird4.jpg
'62 Chestnut Convertible, White Top/Chestnut Interior
VTCI #12660
Past T-Birds:
'65HT, '66TL, '63SR, '78DJE

MN63Tbird
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:38 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: 1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

Post by MN63Tbird »

Success!! I followed Old Rustys suggestions and installed the SSBC MC1001 Dual Master cylinder and it works great with the proportioning block. Drove about 30 miles today. The pedal effort is slightly more to stop but for someone who had never driven the car before they probably would not know the difference. The Jelly Jar unit fits nicely without modifications to the cross brace as shown in the pic. Though a bit larger it is still in similar appearance to an original Jelly jar single master. The Booster was rebuilt and that solved a lot of issues regarding pedal not returning quickly and leaking vacuum. The car runs better also without an incessant vacuum leak. Unfortunately from my research it looks like like SSBC may no longer be in business. I purchased the last Jelly Jar unit from CJ Pony (works on a 65-66 Mustang conversion) but there appears to be some still availabe at a substantially higher price. And yes I know the hood hinges are the wrong color but that is a project down the road.

MN63
Attachments
IMG_4417.JPG
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code

OldRusty1
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 7:32 pm

Re: 1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

Post by OldRusty1 »

MN63,
Congrats on your success! Glad to hear and see your installation went well.
SSBC appears to be back in business renamed SSBC-USA,
but I don't know if they are going to again produce the dual bowl jelly jar master cylinder.
https://ssbc-usa.com/
Regards, Old Rusty
'62 Chestnut Convertible, White Top/Chestnut Interior
VTCI #12660
Past T-Birds:
'65HT, '66TL, '63SR, '78DJE

User avatar
Karl
Posts: 836
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:03 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: 1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

Post by Karl »

G'day Old Rusty and MN63
If there was anything I would do to improve the safety of my 63 Bird would be to change the master cyl to duel circuit.
In your case do you still have the original drum brakes or have you changed to discs?
Karl.
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop

MN63Tbird
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:38 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: 1963 Tbird Single to Dual Master Cylinder

Post by MN63Tbird »

Karl, Yes I still have the original Drum brakes and I believe OldRusty1 in a previous thread indicated that he keep his original drum brakes. I feel a lot more comfortable now on having the dual master cylinder considering the issues I have faced before loosing brakes. If you like the design there is one available posted on the JEGS site. On my setup I had to have one new front brake line installed. I wanted to move the proportioning block over to access the power steering lines. I am trying to keep the car as close to original as possible but braking is one area I am willing to change for safety.
MN63
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code

Post Reply