Convertible Top Troubleshooting

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redthundervert64
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:19 pm

Convertible Top Troubleshooting

Post by redthundervert64 »

Hi all. I’m a new member and really appreciate the great information I’ve been getting through this forum. Thanks everyone!

We’ve had our ’64 convertible for about 3 months. It had been stored for 14 years and the convertible top, power windows, clock, etc. etc. weren’t working but, with a lot of help from this forum, I’ve managed to get almost everything back in working order. I thought I’d share some of my experiences when sorting out the convertible top operation. I came up against some real head-scratchers (at least for me) that I haven’t seen on this forum, so hopefully these experiences will be useful to some other poor soul scratching his or her head.

Manuals – I have the Shop Manual, the Wiring Diagram Manual, and the Convertible Top Repair Manual. To me the Shop Manual was the most useful as it has 3 drawings (Figs. 3, 4, and 5) that aren’t included in the Repair Manual. I was constantly referring to these figures for relay layout and wiring.

Relay Bus Bar Power – I cleaned up the relay and motor contacts and bump-tested them using a long jumper wire (fused) from the positive battery post, another long jumper wire from the negative battery post, and other jumpers as shown in the manual. Fortunately all of the components worked! When I tried bumping them from the relay bus bar power circuit nothing worked, even though I was getting 12 volts at the bus bar. This was a stumper for a couple of days until I cleaned the connections at the 60 amp circuit breaker, after which everything worked. I think that 12 volts was getting through the circuit but there was a large voltage drop under load due to the poor connections. Amazingly, once I got the hydraulic system working, the whole top operation worked with only very slight adjustments required for one of the deck lock nuts and the deck closed limit switch – not bad after sitting for so long!

Hydraulic Cylinder Creep – I had taken all the hydraulic cylinders out of the car and had freed them up by hand, getting as much of the old, dirty hydraulic fluid as possible out of them. After reinstalling them it took many fillings of the hydraulic pump reservoir and bleeding of all the cylinders to finally get them working smoothly. After a few days of trouble-free operation, the deck cylinders suddenly began to release slightly when the pump started at the beginning of the top retract cycle (after the upper back panel erect cycle). This resulted in the deck lid closing slightly and getting in the way of the top as it was folding down into the trunk - luckily the top wasn’t damaged. I tried switching two of the solenoids, with the same result. Then, when I had a careful look at the hydraulic lines, I discovered that one of the lines connected to the bottom of the right-side deck cylinder had become kinked slightly. After I straightened the line everything worked smoothly again.

Intermittent Top Operation - About two weeks ago the top operation became intermittent. If I held the top control switch and let the operation go through its complete opening or closing cycle it worked fine, although sometimes nothing would happen when I pushed the control switch to start the operation. If I stopped the operation in mid-cycle it often wouldn’t start again. It would always eventually work again if I turned the ignition off and on and kept trying over a period of several minutes. After doing many checks and tests, I finally decided to check all the relays starting with the top control safety relay (fortunately before I had taken the back seat out again). I tried to jumper the relay plug to bypass the relay coil and discovered that the jumper connectors fit very loosely in the relay plug and would fall right out. Once I tightened up the relay plug connectors using pliers the jumper wire stayed securely in the plug and the top operation worked smoothly again. I plugged the relay plug back into the safety relay and everything works fine again, at least for now until the next gremlin strikes! This winter I’ll be going through all the relay plug connectors to make sure each connector in each plug has a snug fit.

That’s probably more than enough for now. I hope this might be of some help to other convertible owners.

Bob
jtschug
Posts: 1472
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:33 pm

Re: Convertible Top Troubleshooting

Post by jtschug »

On intermittent top operation, next time it happens, try wiggling the shift lever. Sometimes the neutral safety switch needs a little coaxing.
1966 Thunderbird Convertible (Emberglo / White-Emberglo)
Modified 428 - stroked, rollercam, aluminum top end, headers
Livermore, CA
RAVEN
Posts: 1851
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Convertible Top Troubleshooting

Post by RAVEN »

REDTHUNDER, welcome to the FORUM. Glad to see your efforts have worked well.
Would like too make one recommendation, please make an effort to maintain the existing wiring harness plugs and not cut off the RELAY plugs and replace them with the offered reported replacement RELAY system.
There exists a TRUE electronic replacement which utilizes the old harness plugs and is a plug and play system. If you need or want more info, just do a Search under APINES as author, and read his posts. I have one of his systems and they have worked well in my tests.

RAVEN
CDN Member since 1975 #2086
Flock: 1964 Landau Original Family Owned
1964 Sr Convertible "RAVEN"
Past: 2003 Blk Lab "RAVEN" "RIP"Nov 15/17
1964 Lincoln vin4Y86N00007
1964 Red Convertible
apines
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:05 pm

Re: Convertible Top Troubleshooting

Post by apines »

Thanks for the endorsement, Wally! I do have a few available if anyone wants one. PM me for details if you're interested.
current:
1966 Ford Thunderbird Q-code convertible with Highway Pilot
1975 Triumph Spitfire
past:
1955 Ford Thunderbird
1974 Triumph TR6
1968 Ford Galaxie convertible
1974 VW Super Beetle
1981 Checker Marathon
VTCI membership #12807
RAVEN
Posts: 1851
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Convertible Top Troubleshooting

Post by RAVEN »

BTW FULL DISCLOSURE: I have displayed these boards at VTCI International events that I have attended. There has been interest, which I have passed on to Apines.
I do not receive any financial compensation, only the benefit of helping other Thunderbird owners in anyway possible to keep on enjoying their cars.
CDN Member since 1975 #2086
Flock: 1964 Landau Original Family Owned
1964 Sr Convertible "RAVEN"
Past: 2003 Blk Lab "RAVEN" "RIP"Nov 15/17
1964 Lincoln vin4Y86N00007
1964 Red Convertible
redthundervert64
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:19 pm

Re: Convertible Top Troubleshooting

Post by redthundervert64 »

A good reminder, jtschug. I had to deal with this issue early on, because my shift lever seems to be quite worn and needs to be pushed firmly into Park for the neutral safety switch to engage (another item on my repair list). To avoid having to push the shift lever while troubleshooting the top operation I temporarily bypassed the neutral safety switch by removing the top control safety relay plug, wrapping a jumper wire around the relay coil post that connects to the neutral safety switch (red wire w/black stripe), attaching the other end of the jumper wire to ground at the firewall, and reconnecting the relay plug. This bypass would keep the relay energized in any gear as long as the ignition was on, so I disconnected it when going for a drive. Probably not the best practice to bypass things like this, but desperate times require desperate measures!

Bob
redthundervert64
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:19 pm

Re: Convertible Top Troubleshooting

Post by redthundervert64 »

Thanks RAVEN. I'll make sure to avoid the temptation of cutting off any of the relay plugs. I checked out apines' relay boards and they look like a great solution for cars with relay problems - the remote control feature is a real bonus! Fortunately my relays seem to be in good shape with very little corrosion, but I'll definitely keep these relay boards in mind.

Bob
Mvs62bulletbird
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2023 7:14 pm

1962 thunderbird factory owners manual

Post by Mvs62bulletbird »

I am looking for anyone that’s got a 1962 Ford Thunderbird owners manual I don’t have that one for my car and would greatly appreciate the sharing of the direction to get one. Thank you so much Michael.
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losendos
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Re: 1962 thunderbird factory owners manual

Post by losendos »

Mvs62bulletbird wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:01 pm I am looking for anyone that’s got a 1962 Ford Thunderbird owners manual I don’t have that one for my car and would greatly appreciate the sharing of the direction to get one. Thank you so much Michael.
I've had good luck finding owner's manuals on ebay.
-Patrick
1966 Town Hardtop
VTCI #12691
Past Birds: 1986 Turbo Coupe 5-speed, 1965 Convertible
Mvs62bulletbird
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2023 7:14 pm

Re: Convertible Top Troubleshooting

Post by Mvs62bulletbird »

Hi I now have the manual watched help me to realize how little I knew, and how far I got to go. I cannot get the Thunderbird top or back deck lid to make any type of sound whatsoever. I am going to replace the switch in the door in the next week and waiting for the arrive I replace of the 50 amp circuit breaker, and the 10 amp circuit breaker by the ignition solenoid up by the battery in the engine compartment. Looking for the next steps please help I just want to get the top off for the winter so I can cover it properly.
Mvs62bulletbird
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2023 7:14 pm

Re: Convertible Top Troubleshooting

Post by Mvs62bulletbird »

Hi, after reading the whole post at length three times regarding the convertible top issues on my 62 Thunderbird I do not know the location of the relay bus bar which would help me a tremendous amount. I have replaced the 50 amp circuit breaker and the 10 amp circuit breaker and I need help knowing the next steps and working through this issue as stated in another post I am waiting to receive the correct top switch from, the Birds Nest I got the wrong one. They pulled the wrong one off the shelf. Also, I am looking to put a smaller steering wheel on the car. My abdominal area seems to have increased to the point where it rubs against the steering wheel and I’m a very big guy anyway like 6ft5 so this doesn’t help me . Has anyone else replace the steering wheel on their 62 Thunderbird or one or three? Who do you recommend? What steering wheel do you recommend? I want a smaller steering wheel that I can put on to a lemonade my issues please big help here thank you Michael any mistakes are due to voice to text and I apologize about that. Please PM me with any suggestions you got.
jtschug
Posts: 1472
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:33 pm

Re: Convertible Top Troubleshooting

Post by jtschug »

I'm not as familiar with the 1962. I've seen them at shows, and one of my old bosses used to have a bullet bird, but I've never worked on one. There are certainly similarities, but there are also important differences. You may get more help from the 1961-1963 Thunderbird forum.
1966 Thunderbird Convertible (Emberglo / White-Emberglo)
Modified 428 - stroked, rollercam, aluminum top end, headers
Livermore, CA
User avatar
Alan H. Tast
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Location: Omaha, NE

Re: 1962 thunderbird factory owners manual

Post by Alan H. Tast »

Mvs62bulletbird wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:01 pm I am looking for anyone that’s got a 1962 Ford Thunderbird owners manual I don’t have that one for my car and would greatly appreciate the sharing of the direction to get one. Thank you so much Michael.
Please ask questions about 1961-1963 T-birds in the 1961-1963 Thunderbird portion of the forum. There's a reason why it's separate from 1964-1966.

https://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net/ ... um.php?f=6
Alan H. Tast, AIA
Technical Director/Past President,
Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
1963 Hardtop & 1963 Sports Roadster
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