Front facing headlight panel paint color

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paulr
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Front facing headlight panel paint color

Post by paulr »

RAVEN
Re: Resto question; rust prevention measure
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Post Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:18 am

Paul, the work looks great, is this GINGER you are working on?
I have a question in regards to the painted surfaces on the car. Specifically the front facing panel area on either side of the front rad support, the slotted section and the panel which the voltage reg is screwed to.
These two FRONT facing panels also have the headlight pods mounted to.
My question; when you were stripping the paint and cleaning these panels, and since GINGER was originally a 64 MY White car, did you find these panels to be sprayed with a Black over spray, like the lower rad frame, per the Osborne MANUALS for blacked out areas?
There is an ongoing discussion, about these areas, with no complete answer. An associate of mine says that these areas were blacked out also, and reportedly has a notice letter telling so. (He has a vast library of FORD archived material from the old Ford Canadian Headquarters when it was torn down, only thing is he can not find that letter currently) It is reported that these panels got a Black coating to make them disappear when you looked through the grille, especially on light coloured cars.
My question is what you found, Blacked out or not. It would be a benefit to know what you found to help keep the discussion open and continue with the information stream. Currently it is an active topic with some of us members, and any info found is appreciated.

Wally
First, a slight detail. Ginger is/was white only because someone sprayed over the factory finish with two different colors. Her original code is rose metallic which is being restored.

I am in the process of taking all this paint off down to bare metal throughout the car. You are right. The front face below the apron had a thin black layer. But first the car was painted body color (rose-beige metallic) underneath. I’m afraid I don’t have any pictures of that. I was focused on cleaning and degreasing followed by paint removal.

The thing I noticed was the black was a very weak coat. The degreaser I used made it just run right down after soaking a few minutes. It was not durable like the lacquer used for body color.

The most specific irregularity was the underside of the apron (where the horns are mounted, the hood latch, etc.) was sprayed black and that seemed to be all. No red oxide primer, no body lacquer. And the black spray wasn’t enough protection because that area was the only place in the entire engine bay I had surface rust to repair. Even my battery tray was better than that!
Paul
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'64 Landau HT
"Beer, now there's a temporary solution!" ~Homer Simpson
RAVEN
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Re: Front facing headlight panel paint color

Post by RAVEN »

Thanks Paul for the info, it adds to the discussion.
A continuing question now is, and pivots around your VIN number and also the Blacked out areas.
In regard to the Blacked out areas and the Osborne MANUALS. In the Osborne books it shows areas covered but not necessarily behind the headlight pods front facing surfaces. This is part of the mystery, some members say this area was NOT treated, while others say it was. As I stated before, a local member comments that he has a Service Bulletin noting the Blacked out area, but is unable to put his hands on it presently. He pulled so much materials when FORD Oakville was dumping the archives, that he just is unable to find it. (It does not help that he had a flood in his basement library and everything got pulled up before they got wet).
The Blackening is shown on the Square Bird Osborne books but not necessarily the Flair Birds.
My thoughts are that the "LIGHT" coloured cars got a Black coating to make them disappear when you looked through the Grille.
This thought also can be MY driven. Early cars got it, later maybe not. In my conversations, I have found early cars (mine) have the Shadowing while later cars (65s) did not.
This will be an ongoing process and will not be solved in a day.
Thanks for your input.
Hope the colour correction project goes smoothly.
CDN Member since 1975 #2086
Flock: 1964 Landau Original Family Owned
1964 Sr Convertible "RAVEN"
Past: 2003 Blk Lab "RAVEN" "RIP"Nov 15/17
1964 Lincoln vin4Y86N00007
1964 Red Convertible
stubbie
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Re: Front facing headlight panel paint color

Post by stubbie »

My 64. On the driver side was covered in grease and grime and I washed it off but not in the middle or passenger side. Car is original paint under a thin black coating that comes off quite easy. You can also see what appears to be red oxide under the middle section.
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RAVEN
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Re: Front facing headlight panel paint color

Post by RAVEN »

Another feed back on this subject. Thanks. It helps in the information of Authenticity on our cars.
Can you provide the build date and VIN number, plus original body colour, so I can start recording this info. You can PM me with the info for privacy.

Paul can you do the same pls.

Wally
CDN Member since 1975 #2086
Flock: 1964 Landau Original Family Owned
1964 Sr Convertible "RAVEN"
Past: 2003 Blk Lab "RAVEN" "RIP"Nov 15/17
1964 Lincoln vin4Y86N00007
1964 Red Convertible
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paulr
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Re: Front facing headlight panel paint color

Post by paulr »

Stubbie's pictures are exactly the pics I woulda gotten for you on my car, Wally, if we woulda had this conversation three weeks ago. It looked exactly like that. Good pics, Stub. That black layer is pretty weak whatever it is. I'll PM my VIN info, Wally.

I just remembered we deconstructed a 65MY Light Aqua hardtop that belonged to my buddy last year. That car is gone but I had a photo showing that the front section is clearly not painted black. I don't know the build date of that car but, strangely, I could supply you the VIN if you want. Light aqua (uncommon color) is easy to distinguish from black.
Paul
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'64 Landau HT
"Beer, now there's a temporary solution!" ~Homer Simpson
Scott6T6
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Re: Front facing headlight panel paint color

Post by Scott6T6 »

Wally,
I am providing you with some additional documentation regarding the "blackout paint". Ford used this technique on all of their models including Thunderbirds. Any area deemed unsightly by Ford was concealed by utilizing the blackout paint treatment.
On Thunderbirds, these areas where the blackout paint was utilized would include the front of the body behind the grille and below on the face of the lower front cross member, the outside of both front side rails, the center of the lower cowl panel below the air intake vent and both of the rocker panel pinch weld flanges. On 1964 & '65 models, the flat face behind the hood scoop chrome trim was also "blacked out" to emphasize the
scoop and I would imagine to make it appear open and functional even though it wasn't.
As you know, my 1966 Town Landau has only 22,250 miles on it and is unrestored. It remains very well preserved including the factory applied blackout paint. Since the focus here seems to be on the area located directly behind the grille, I'm providing photos of this on my car. You can see plenty of red oxide primer here as well as the factory applied blackout paint. Blackout paint was also sprayed onto the front valance mounting brackets. Black overspray is evident on the inside of the front valance panels as well. There may also be some Emberglo metallic overspray on front of the body surrounding the radiator, but it is just that - mainly overspray. No thorough coating of body color paint (Emberglo) was applied here all around the radiator opening on my car. The areas behind the headlight housings did receive an ample coat of Emberglo, but this was restricted to those areas on both sides of the front of the body within the front fender faces. Since our cars were painted by people, paint coverage would tend to vary slightly from one car to the next on the front of the body. Headlight housings were painted separate from the main body and installed further down the assembly line.
For those who are not aware of this, Wixom immersed the entire unibody assembly into an electro - static red oxide primer bath. The process literally "plated" every square inch of the body in red oxide primer. Therefore when examining areas of our cars such as the underbody or passenger compartments where no body color paint or undercoating/sound deadener was applied, you will find a thorough coating of red oxide primer.
Also want to mention our Thunderbirds (as well as all Ford vehicles) were painted in Acrylic Enamel in those days. Chrysler also used Acrylic enamel. GM used Acrylic lacquer,
I believe the blackout paint used by Ford was lacquer.
It is also worthy to note the blackout paint was applied further down the assembly line after the engines were installed. On original, low mileage car plenty of blackout paint overspray can be seen on the lower portion of the engines, on the oil pan, etc... I can also provide you with photo documentation of this if you like. I also have documentation of the blackout paint on other '66 Thunderbirds.
I have noted the use of blackout paint on many '66 Thunderbirds over the years. Often blackout paint was not used on cars painted in dark colors and sometimes not all areas specified for the blackout paint received it.

Scott <><
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RAVEN
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Re: Front facing headlight panel paint color

Post by RAVEN »

Thanks for the input Scott. This subject has come up, and previous discussions involving Alan, Fuz and others have been tossed around.
Some say NO to the black out area behind the headlight pods, some say YES to the treatment.
In my current case, RAVEN being a triple black car, this issue does not apply, but my 64 Landau which is White, will apply. It is not a big issue yet as I am still working on the restoration, and paint is a distant subject. Just doing the talk in preparation, and getting the concourse info nailed down.

Anyone else who can, or wants to throw in their observations, I am open to listen. The more the better. Just another rabbit hole for Alan to travel down, and documentation is needed to solidify the comments.

Wally

PS; it's Wimbledon White for the purist (cream) not appliance Maytag white.
CDN Member since 1975 #2086
Flock: 1964 Landau Original Family Owned
1964 Sr Convertible "RAVEN"
Past: 2003 Blk Lab "RAVEN" "RIP"Nov 15/17
1964 Lincoln vin4Y86N00007
1964 Red Convertible
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