Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

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projo198
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:47 pm
Location: Kansas City

Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by projo198 »

Now that I have the car running nicely I have moved into the interior. I currently have the dash pulled and am trying to figure out why I am not getting any power inside the cabin. No dash lights, no interior lights, nothing. [UPDATE - The horn does still work].

I have started with the ignition. The car will not start with the key, though turning the key off shuts the car off. The PO installed a button switch which does start the car. It is very rudimentary; one side of it goes to the positive terminal on the starter solenoid and the other to the bottom smaller terminal on the same solenoid (these are the black and white wires below).
Image

I removed those, cleaned up the terminals and put it back together in what I believe is the original configuration. Still nothing.
Image

I suspected the neutral safety switch, so to rule that out I removed it and bypassed it with jumper wires.
Image

One last pic, there is nothing hooked up to the square tab of my ignition switch, and I don't see any lose wires. Should something be here? I did pull the terminal from it and volt tested every point, there was no voltage on any of them. Should there be a constant hot there?
Image

So here are my questions;

1. Do either of the smaller wires that slide onto the starter solenoid terminals (presumably from the ignition) provide a 12v to the solenoid, or are they merely closing a circuit/switch? I volt tested them both while turning the key and never registered anything.

2. I have read that power to the car is only sent when the starter solenoid is activated. Is this so and if so could the solenoid itself be suspect?

3. With everything I have posted here should I be looking hard at the solenoid or ignition switch itself?

Thanks in advance for your advice, I don't want to keep throwing money and parts at it to try and fix it.
projo198
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:47 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by projo198 »

Should the positive terminal of the battery go straight to the starter solenoid and nothing else?
projo198
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:47 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by projo198 »

Well this morning I've installed both a new starter solenoid and a new ignition switch. Still not getting anything. The solenoid works when jumped from the battery. Seems like there is no power getting to the ignition.
projo198
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:47 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by projo198 »

Just another update as I take frustration breaks inside lol...

Just cleaned the main ground wire and terminals at the battery, block and chassis (right below the evap canister). I wire wheeled them to bare metal at all contact points.

Still no power. Can't figure out what I am missing.
projo198
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:47 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by projo198 »

Just replaced all my glass fuses in an attempt to get something going and that didn't work either.
BBlendo
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Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:54 pm

Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by BBlendo »

Have you Checked both sides of the amp meter. That is the the main feed. Do you have any electrical schematics?
projo198
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:47 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by projo198 »

BBlendo wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:27 pm Have you Checked both sides of the amp meter. That is the the main feed. Do you have any electrical schematics?
I don't have schematics yet. So I've been limited to what I can find online. There is what I believe is a voltmeter attached to the back of the gauge cluster and I tried plugging that in (with 2 clusters) and no luck.

Where is the amp meter located on the car? I planned on testing the positive lead starting from the battery and making my way inside.
BBlendo
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Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by BBlendo »

If you have 12 vdc at both sides of amp meter you may want to check 12vdc at regulator the yellow wire. As well as green/ red red wire and black/ yellow at alternator if good check the main connectors on both sides of car on firewall make sure they are seated correctly these maybe hard to get to unless you remove the inner fender The passenger side connector handles most of the power while the driver side is lights and instrumentaion as well as power. Good luck
JamesR
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Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 7:47 pm

Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by JamesR »

Hi projo198. It sounds like you don't have the shop manual. Here's a scan that I took of mine that show a couple of diagrams of the starter relay (solenoid) and where the wires come from and where they connect to. Sorry the scan is sideways. (If you download it on your computer you should be able to orient it .)

I chopped off part of the text on the right - #4 reads: "With the voltmeter negative lead connected to the negative terminal of the battery and the positive lead connected to the engine ground (figure 6 connection "4")......0.1 volts." (Just in case you want to try the Starter cranking circuit test.) Also, I don't know what connects to the lead you circled on the ign. sw. pic. It might be your ign switch is bad, and that's why the guy put the push button in, but who knows?

The place to start might be here: You may/probably already know this, but many T-Birds of this era have a condition where turning the key to start the car does nothing UNLESS the steering column mounted gear selector is pushed all the way to the left, or "up". (This apparently also indicates a potentially unsafe condition where a car running in park might jump into reverse, so when the car is running when you're not behind the wheel either the e brake - if working - should be on, or the steering wheel should be swung over to the right, which disconnects the shift function. Hopefully other forum members will verify these temporary remedies.) If you haven't tried it already, try fiddling with the shift lever with your left hand while turning the key with your right hand. Could be the PO wasn't aware of this condition and installed his button starter.

If that's not the issue, I'd also check the continuity of the wire from the ignition switch to the relay. Color coding will probably help identify the wire.
65elecdiag.jpg
Last edited by JamesR on Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:28 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Rt.146
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Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by Rt.146 »

The 66's just after the battery running along the passenger side have a fuse-able link which power flows through to the interior, I do not know if the 65s have the same, you may if you do, have to put an inline fuse to get power to the interior if the relay is shot.
Last edited by Rt.146 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
projo198
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Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:47 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by projo198 »

Thanks very much for the info guys!

JamesR; I did suspect the neutral safety switch, so I bypassed it to see if I could get things going. I am also on my way back from Omaha at the moment having picked up some fenders, and the seller let me pull the switch from his car for 20 bucks while I was there. Mine was missing one of the small metal balls that close the connection inside the switch.

I will start checking all the places you guys mentioned. The firewall connection on the passenger side is pretty easy to get to with the dash out. Hopefully there is just something loose along the way.

When you guys say to check voltage at both sides of the amp meter, are you referring to the actual gauge itself that is part of the cluster? There is also a small box on the back of the cluster that has a male and female terminal on it. Is this the voltage regulator?
BBlendo
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Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:54 pm

Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by BBlendo »

The small box on back side of instrument cluster is a constant voltage regulator only use is power supply for gauges. Amp gauge referred to is the main amp gauge far right side of cluster. Are your headlights working?
When you removed dash was it totally disconnected from all connectors? If so did they all seat firmly on reinstall? Hopefully when you replace the ignition switch things will fall into order
if not please list what is working and not
Ignition sw, Headlights, gauges, interior and gauge lights,
Someone mentioned the position of tilt steering this is critical for troubleshooting as well as neutral safety switch located near base of steering column on the 65 there are two circuits on this switch one of course is for starting the other is reverse lights. Follow their advice regarding positioning of tilt and shifter
The one for ignition is # 32 which is red / blue stripe. Which comes from ign switch going to neutral safety switch and then to starter solenoid.
projo198
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:47 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by projo198 »

BBlendo wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:53 pm The small box on back side of instrument cluster is a constant voltage regulator only use is power supply for gauges. Amp gauge referred to is the main amp gauge far right side of cluster. Are your headlights working?
When you removed dash was it totally disconnected from all connectors? If so did they all seat firmly on reinstall? Hopefully when you replace the ignition switch things will fall into order
if not please list what is working and not
Ignition sw, Headlights, gauges, interior and gauge lights,
Someone mentioned the position of tilt steering this is critical for troubleshooting as well as neutral safety switch located near base of steering column on the 65 there are two circuits on this switch one of course is for starting the other is reverse lights. Follow their advice regarding positioning of tilt and shifter
The one for ignition is # 32 which is red / blue stripe. Which comes from ign switch going to neutral safety switch and then to starter solenoid.
Thanks Sir. The dash is still out, but when I disassembled everything was pretty tight. 2 of the 4 headlights worked before taking it apart, I assumed bad bulbs. Now none do. Right now the only thing with power on the inside is the horn. Would my gauges themselves being still unplugged cause this power issue?

I removed the neutral safety switch and have it bypassed with test wires for now, but picked up a replacement yesterday as one of the metal balls in mine was missing.
projo198
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:47 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by projo198 »

I am also finally working with the electrical schematics. Please let me know if I am on track for at least the ignition switch. It looks like someone bypassed a lot just to get the car to start and run.


RED/GREEN - goes to positive terminal on coil. Is this the resistance wire? It is the only positive feed to the coil I see on the diagram.

RED/BLUE - goes to neutral safety switch.

BLACK/GREEN - on the schematic this ends in an (X) ???

YELLOW - eventually turns black/yellow and goes directly to the alternator. Is this the what it uses for ground?

GREEN/RED - goes to alternator terminal regulator terminal (s). Is this where the ignition switch is getting it's power?
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redstangbob
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Re: Not getting any power to the inside of the car, and fixing a PO's hack job (65 hardtop).

Post by redstangbob »

Would my gauges themselves being still unplugged cause this power issue?
practically all power goes through the ammeter, if the wires are not on the gauge nothing works. you can join the wires with a jumper, be careful not to short it out. good luck, Bob C
It's gonna be cool when it's done
And now it's really cool !!



59 convertible
58 convertible
65 hardtop
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