Opinions on replacing window motors?

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mark1965tbird
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Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by mark1965tbird »

Hi everyone,
I've been repairing my quarter window motors on my 65 convertible with some success (replaced motor gears, lubed....today one's not working, not sure why).
My door panels need to be replaced and while I'm at it, would you recommend replacing the window motors? At $250 each they are not cheap, but once I have the door apart maybe it's time? If you have an opinion or experience please let me know. I have no idea how frequently these motors go bad.
Thanks, Mark
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RedBird64
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by RedBird64 »

I still have the original motors in my doors. The rears are another story.
If they work, I would not replace them. The problems I've had were more with switches and wiring having huge voltage drops across them. In your case I would first suspect the switch has finally failed. Certainly check to make sure there's power to the window motor before replacing it.
I Never could figure out why but the feed wire to my switches had more than a 4V drop. Wire looked perfect but had to run a parallel supply wire to them and then I had to replace the switches themselves.
If you're having problems with slow windows, I would measure the voltage at the battery and at motors while they're being operated.

Scott
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 42 years. It was my folks car before that (second owners). VTCI # 12013.
Terry64HT
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by Terry64HT »

Power to these motors is one of the big problems. I used the original power through the switch to fire a relay and brought fresh 12 volt power for the motor. It's not difficult to do, the relays can be hidden in any number of places and makes a big difference to the operation. Those switches have such small contacts that wear and get dirty, getting enough power to properly run the motor is tough.
Terry
64HT
mark1965tbird
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by mark1965tbird »

Thanks Scott and Terry. It's strange that I took them apart and had them working so well, then one just stops (only a small "click" when you hit the switch). The car only has 82k miles but sat for a year in a garage, so the car seems all there, but gremlins come with it. They seem to be mostly electrical.
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paulr
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by paulr »

mark1965tbird wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:24 pm the car seems all there, but gremlins come with it. They seem to be mostly electrical.
This precisely tells everything you need to know when taking on a Tbird build. 😂
Paul
VTCI 12014
Registry 45122
'64 Landau HT
"Beer, now there's a temporary solution!" ~Homer Simpson
jtschug
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by jtschug »

The voltage drop is a huge problem. Some say Ford used a resistor wire in the power feed to slow the motors down, I haven’t confirmed that but clearly there is some resistance in there somewhere
1966 Thunderbird Convertible (Emberglo / White-Emberglo)
Modified 428 - stroked, rollercam, aluminum top end, headers
Livermore, CA
mark1965tbird
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by mark1965tbird »

Do people usually replace wires? I will replace switches and relays, but is there any other common fix?
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paulr
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by paulr »

I have rebuilt all the window harnesses , changing out some of the specs. I beefed up gages to the quarters and hot from relay to main switch, plus replacing bus bars, switches, blah blah. Maybe it was just swapping out all wiring but windows are consistent and quarters never get stuck anymore.

Another issue I strongly believe in is the rubber system. All bumpers and weatherstrips play a significant role in communicating to the motor when to stop. Replace all rubber. And lube, and adjust, etc.
Paul
VTCI 12014
Registry 45122
'64 Landau HT
"Beer, now there's a temporary solution!" ~Homer Simpson
tbird
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by tbird »

The resistor wires in the 64 to 66. Tbirds are installed from the motors to ground, the rear ground runs from the motor to the driveshaft tunnel and terminates under the console box with a screw into the tunnel metal.
Jim Mills
VTCI # 8071
VTCI 1964-66 Technical Editor
2002 Thunderbird
1965 Convertible
1962 Convertible (in progress)
1959 Ford Retractable HT
Many parts cars
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RedBird64
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by RedBird64 »

tbird wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:03 am The resistor wires in the 64 to 66. Tbirds are installed from the motors to ground, the rear ground runs from the motor to the driveshaft tunnel and terminates under the console box with a screw into the tunnel metal.
True but they are just current limiting. Until the motor draws excessive current, they have no effect. So if say, a kid has his head or fingers stuck in the window it wont hurt as much. :badgrin:
I bypassed mine just to see if there was any effect and the voltage drops remained the same - as expected.

Scott
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 42 years. It was my folks car before that (second owners). VTCI # 12013.
Fordt66
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by Fordt66 »

Hello All from Canada!
Im having some issues with my pass window , all others work fine. If i bench test window rolls up and down no prob, but i just get clicks on up and down. I have had switch apart and cleaned everything , switch works just fine plugged into drivers side.Its the Father in laws 1966 tbird Thx eh! 🇨🇦
Fordt66
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by Fordt66 »

Id like to add if i disconnect battery terminals i can wire a ground directly to motor and hot touch red or yellow and rolls up and down great. The moment i hook terminals back up and direct wire i just get clicks . Im stumped what am i missing ? Bad voltage drop. Seems like not getting full juice but reading 12.9 engine off and 13.9 engine on at switch How do i add an extra wire parallel Wire to add power so the drop isnt so bad?
tbird
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by tbird »

Issue may be that the black wire at the motor is not grounded properly or the motor is drawing to much current. The design of the wiring is a bit off normal automotive wiring, the black wire is the ground and it is actually a resistance wire which is intended to save the window motor if it should be drawing to high a current. The motor may require new brushes or bushings, if the window is going down very fast and struggling to go up the preload on the spring may be wrong.

If you have a clamp on meter that measures DC amperage you could check the black wire or the red or yellow wires to see what the drawon the motor is.
Jim Mills
VTCI # 8071
VTCI 1964-66 Technical Editor
2002 Thunderbird
1965 Convertible
1962 Convertible (in progress)
1959 Ford Retractable HT
Many parts cars
JimB66thunderbird
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by JimB66thunderbird »

Can anyone tell the voltage to the power window switches, my concern is the drivers side window. Thank you.
Terry64HT
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Re: Opinions on replacing window motors?

Post by Terry64HT »

Should be 12 volts everywhere, but there will be some losses because of connections, switch contacts, etc. The closer to 12, the better.
Terry
64HT
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