Introduction and Exhaust Question

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Jim Wulf
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Post by Jim Wulf »

Oh good grief. Well, it had been an interesting discussion.
Steve - you better not be referring to my post..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

After all.... what could be more interesting than exhaust pipe gaskets :?: :?: :?: ;-)
Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
62 SR Red/Black
63 CV Black/Red
67 MGB Roadster
38 MG TA Tickford Drophead Coupe
39 Lea-Francis Corsica Super Sports
Past Birds:
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66 CV Red/Red
63 CV P. Green/Pearl Beige
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TsNStangs
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Post by TsNStangs »

Steverino:
**edit - thanks, Jim W., for persevering :mrgreen:
Amen... :???:


And I've started a new thread in the Modified area for the continuation of the earlier "performance" end of the discussion earlier, which will hopefully be picked up where it left off here, since I also think it's a valid subject, and one many here can benefit from: http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net/p ... 0178#40178
~ Daniel
"I'm your huckleberry..."
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60fore
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Post by 60fore »

Jim - which car is using those gaskets? I thought all of your Birds are '63 or later which would mean doughnuts wouldn't it? Or did the '63 M engine use a carryover exhaust manifold from '62? :?: :?:
Currently Birdless....we'll see how long that lasts!

Past Birds: 1962 Hardtop Corinthian White "The Survivor"
1964 Hardtop Gunmetal Gray "60Fore"
1986 Turbo Coupe Regatta Blue
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Jim Wulf
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Post by Jim Wulf »

Jim - which car is using those gaskets? I thought all of your Birds are '63 or later which would mean doughnuts wouldn't it? Or did the '63 M engine use a carryover exhaust manifold from '62? :?: :?:
'63 M Codes use the flat flange mounting configuration and gasket, the same as '61 and '62. In fact, the '61-'62 C1SE 4V and 6V exhaust manifolds are interchangeable with the '63 C3SE 6V exhaust manifold and are often found on M Code conversions because the C3SE manifolds are relatively scarce.

The "doughnut" configuration was initiated on the '63 4V single exhaust system and then carried forward to '64 and later. If you have a '63 with single exhaust and you want to convert it to duals, there is a dual exhaust conversion H pipe available that utilizes the doughnuts so you can retain your original '63 doughnut manifolds. I posted a picture of that particular conversion H pipe awhile ago - that is what I'm installing on my '63 convertible eventually.

As it happens, I'm installing the Remflex flat gaskets on both my '63 M Code, which needs three gaskets because of the '63's heat riser valve, and also on a friend/customer's '62 SR that I'm working on right now. The '62 has the correct 1 3/4"exhaust system, but the flat flange style manifold opening is two inches with 3 inch O.C studs.

As an aside, it is much easier to change a steering box on a '62 versus a '63 because of the extra room afforded by the 1 3/4" exhaust. It doesn't seem like a lot of difference between 1 3/4" and 2" pipe, but it just shows how tight the clearances are for the box and how just a little room can make a big difference.
Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
62 SR Red/Black
63 CV Black/Red
67 MGB Roadster
38 MG TA Tickford Drophead Coupe
39 Lea-Francis Corsica Super Sports
Past Birds:
63 MSR Red/Pearl Beige
66 CV Red/Red
63 CV P. Green/Pearl Beige
61 HT White/Pearl Beige
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ABQTBird
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Post by ABQTBird »

I hadn't visited this thread in awhile and was surprised to see all of the new posts. I didn't know I would create such a ruckus. It was simply my first post. Since I posted this, I emailed the folks at Pat Wilson's. My 'bird is an early '62, #1325. I don't have the build date because the drivers door is up against some equipment in my garage, but I believe it was built in August or September '61. I described the manifold, the long studs that are probably missing the flapper or spacer, and casting number to them, and they replied that since it was an early '62, it should have 2" pipes on it. You '61 folks, do you have 2" pipes?

Perhaps I should have posted in the modified section. However, the only modification I have basically made to the car is to replace the Autolite 4100 with an Edelbrock 1405 for tunability/drivability. I live at 5500' altitude and the Autolite was so rich, and such a gas hog, I had to replace it with a 1405 tuned two steps lean. It runs like a champ now. I am not looking to build a concours correct car. Just one with a few tweaks to make it more drivable. The 1405 is the manual choke version. I added the electric choke.

Thanks!
Tom in Albuquerque
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1962 Corinthian White Hardtop, Medium Chestnut Metallic #89 Leather, A/C, P/W
2003 Premium Torch Red/Performance White HT, Partial Accent Interior, 1 of 47.
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TsNStangs
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Post by TsNStangs »

Not to worry, Tom, your question was valid. The discussion just got a bit off track...and everybody has a new thread in the Modified area to continue it if they have the interest.
~ Daniel
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MCM1962
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Post by MCM1962 »

Tom, Put a set of stainless steel duals (1 3/4") on a 62 CV Sunday with reasonators. Purchased from Waldron"s. Worked perfect. Correct hangers from Macs and the unique hanger for rear of muffler is available from Norton Baum. They came with the adjustment for heat riser. If you don't have one you can either buy the riser or a spacer. I have a another 62 that is nearly all original and it had the reasonators and the pipe was 1 3/4". Waldons has the gaskets and some stainless steel clamps. If you order a set from them they need to have them adjust the piece that is welded on the muffler up about 3/4 of an inch and also leave the tailpipe about 2 inches longer. It is a tight fit. They also did not weld the nut behind the piece that is added on the end of the muffler. There is a tool that allows you to put a sleeve in the hole on the piece that is welded on the muffler that works like a molly bolt and allows you to screw the bolt in to join the muffer with the bracket. Aloy easier than trying to weld or hold that nut in place while you put the bolt in. There is a pictorial on the rear muffler/hanger assembly that is in the technical section. you have me email if you wish to discuss further
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Post by redstangbob »

If I can beat this horse just a little more, the heat riser/choke thing is not described quite right. The heat riser is closed when cold, it will back up hot gasses through the passages in the head and intake manifold. If you look at the heads, they have a port in them that corresponds with a port in the intake. The port in the intake can get burn through, more likely in an aluminum piece. Hot exhaust gasses keep the carb from freezing up in winter. The hot air choke works independent of the heat riser and the passages in the heads. The carb pulls a small vacuum from it's body, through the choke cap, down the shielded choke tube. Fresh air is drawn either from the air filter housing, the carb air horn, or the short open tube on the right exhaust manifold, depending on what year the engine is. The fresh air that travels trough the exhaust manifold heat exchanger then up to the choke cap is what warms the choke spring, the heat riser plays no part in it. Hope that clears that up a little. Man, what a mouthful, you'd think I took writing lessons from beach bum :lol: :lol:
It's gonna be cool when it's done
And now it's really cool !!



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ricklove
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Re: Introduction and Exhaust Question

Post by ricklove »

WHEW!!! I'm fairly new to this forum and recently purchased a 1963 Landau coupe. Can someone point me in the right direction to order ALL the parts I'll need to convert from the single to dual exhaust? Thanks!!!!

Great forum; I've learned a bunch so far, and looking to get smarter every day!! Thanks to each of you!!!
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Jim Wulf
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Re: Introduction and Exhaust Question

Post by Jim Wulf »

ricklove wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 11:39 am WHEW!!! I'm fairly new to this forum and recently purchased a 1963 Landau coupe. Can someone point me in the right direction to order ALL the parts I'll need to convert from the single to dual exhaust? Thanks!!!!

Great forum; I've learned a bunch so far, and looking to get smarter every day!! Thanks to each of you!!!
Pretty straightforward. Complete 63 dual exhaust conversion system. One pair of intermediate exhaust hangers, and one pair of muffler hangers. Two donut gaskets, four clamps, and four new brass 7/16 -14 or 7/16-20 exhaust nuts dependent on the studs that are presently on your manifolds. Check the threads when removing the old nuts. The brass nuts are available at your local auto store. You'll also need to buy various new bolts and nuts for securing the hangers to the frame and the mufflers to the hanger brackets, all readily available at the local hardware store.

All of the main components are conveniently listed here:

https://www.wilsontbird.com/categories/ ... conversion

I'm sure other vendors carry the same items, but Pat lists it all on one page.
Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
62 SR Red/Black
63 CV Black/Red
67 MGB Roadster
38 MG TA Tickford Drophead Coupe
39 Lea-Francis Corsica Super Sports
Past Birds:
63 MSR Red/Pearl Beige
66 CV Red/Red
63 CV P. Green/Pearl Beige
61 HT White/Pearl Beige
Peddller
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Re: Introduction and Exhaust Question

Post by Peddller »

Thanks Bob for clearing up the heat riser issue, you beat me to it and saved a lot of typing!
Bill Clark
Bel Air, Maryland
1957 F code
2005 50th anniversary
1963 Avanti R2
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redstangbob
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Re: Introduction and Exhaust Question

Post by redstangbob »

:lol: glad I could help Bill, my post was in 2012 :lol: :lol:
It's gonna be cool when it's done
And now it's really cool !!



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Peddller
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Re: Introduction and Exhaust Question

Post by Peddller »

Details Bob Details!
Bill Clark
Bel Air, Maryland
1957 F code
2005 50th anniversary
1963 Avanti R2
1956 GMC Suburban Carrier pickup
1966 Corvair Corsa Turbo
Prior Birds
1963 M code SR
1964 Convertable
1965 convertible
stevegintn
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Re: Introduction and Exhaust Question

Post by stevegintn »

Wow - you guys have blown me away, with all the 'technicalities' I never knew about an exhaust system. And I am envious of your capabilities, as I was not (physically or skill-wise) able to replace the rotten exhaust on my non-M 62. I hired it done, at a local brake & muffler shop.

But before that, and concurrent to the engine rebuild, I bought and had them install the Sanderson 'shorty' headers. Afterwards, I had the muffler shop install a complete new dual system with Flow Masters.

That was almost 2 years ago now, but I am pretty sure the muffler guy told me, "you had 1 1/4 inch pipes, but I'm going back with 2 inch"?
I didn't argue with him.

But I plan to go back to that shop this week, as there is a problem on the passenger side (I guess a hanger issue) where the exhaust tip in popping up under the bumper, and occasionally knocks. It's obviously SHORTER than the other side and LOOSE, so has to be fixed.

Similarly, I replaced the stock choke with an electric one, hoping to improve the cold starting performance of the old Autolite 4100 (it didn't help much). But I did NOT remove the heat riser and replace it with a spacer.

So I guess all this puts my mostly FOMOCO car in the Modified section?
Steve G.
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'61 TBird HT (parts car)
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caseyc
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Re: Introduction and Exhaust Question

Post by caseyc »

Hi All,
I hope this question is ok here. I am putting my exhaust back together now and I am curious about how it is supposed to leave the manifold. The thing I do not know is I am reading about metal shields and mine did not have them. Are they needed? If so how is the layering done correctly, gasket, metal, gasket or no gaskets . Anyone want to school me on how to do it correctly. Thanks for any help!
CASEY C
62 tbird,41 chevy pickup project, 46 cadillac project
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