Ignition switch & lock issue

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Steverino
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Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by Steverino »

Happy Sunday everyone!

I encountered a new issue yesterday. Went to start the car and while I got bright warning lights, no crank or click... nothing. Went to shut the key off, and I couldn't. Key would not return to the vertical position so I could remove it. Jiggled and swore but neither was very helpful. Was glad the car didn't start...

Ended up pulling the battery cable for now.

Now, my keys are very, very worn - to the point that a duplicate key barely works, probably because of "migration" of the cut over several copies over the years.

I'm thinking I have an ignition lock issue here, and possibly also the switch. What do y'all think?

Also, if I buy a new ignition lock, maybe I should buy new door locks that match (or buy new ones & get keyed to match)? That way I'll have "crisp" new accurate keying in all cylinders?

Your thoughts appreciated!
Steve
'62 Landau

There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"...
VTCI #11678
RAVEN
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by RAVEN »

Steveeee boy; yous in luck, if MACs' still has the offer I saw 3 months back, you have a chance on getting new ignition tumbler and door tumbler set for a great price of about 20 odd bucks! CHECK IT OUT!!!
CDN Member since 1975 #2086
Flock: 1964 Landau Original Family Owned
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Steverino
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by Steverino »

Raven, my wise bird, I wish I saw (and needed) the offer you saw. Unfortunately, now that set is $43.99... Still, I suppose I should be grateful that it is still available at all.
Steve
'62 Landau

There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"...
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Cliff Rankin
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by Cliff Rankin »

If by chance you have a good lock shop in your area , you are going to have to pull the switch anyway. I would stop by and get an opinion.
Cliff Rankin
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by RAVEN »

As Agent Maxwell Smart use to say "I missed it by that much". SORRY BUD it was a try.
CDN Member since 1975 #2086
Flock: 1964 Landau Original Family Owned
1964 Sr Convertible "RAVEN"
Past: 2003 Blk Lab "RAVEN" "RIP"Nov 15/17
1964 Lincoln vin4Y86N00007
1964 Red Convertible
GeorgeG
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by GeorgeG »

I agree with Cliff. I had a similar problem. I pulled the lock out of the switch mechanism and brought it to a local locksmith. My problem turned out to be misaligned rods (or whatever you call them) in the lock. He realigned everything and lubed it up. Cost $10 and it was a lot easier just pulling the lock than the whole ignition switch. Of course you have to be able to turn the key to the Accessory position to pull out the lock.

George
George
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Steverino
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by Steverino »

Thanks for the advice, guys.

I hadn't looked at how to remove the cylinder yet. If it has to be in the accessory position, I may be in trouble... :shock: Wish me luck!
Steve
'62 Landau

There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"...
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ricklove
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by ricklove »

The set is no longer available thru Mac's (discontinued), but I did find a new set on eBay (shows 2 still available) for $27.44 shipped. Being a new Bullet Bird owner, I have a LOT to learn. On Mac's site, they also show an "ignition switch repair plug & wires"; what is this? Mac's also shows an "ignition switch" that does not include the cylinder (ordered from eBay). Would I be wise to purchase the "ignition switch" while it's still available since I'll be replacing the the cylinder kit from eBay? Thanks!!!
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by RAVEN »

Rick, if I understand your question and this post does not go off in several different directions,
The ignition switch assembly consists of 3 items, 1) the key tumblers, 2) the switch contacts and body, and 3) the wiring harness assembly which is part of the car harness.
The ignition switch assembly (item 2) can still be bought at NAPA locally, at least here in Ontario Canada, as a fellows car I fixed bought one.
If I read Mac's Catalogue correctly they sell the ignition key tumblers as an individual unit sale. (Item 1) They also sell a REPAIR plug patch cord (item 3)that will fit the switch.
Over time the ignition keys wear and the tumblers fail requiring replacement, giving rise to new tumbler inserts, this is where the shop manual comes in to explain the ease of explaining the change out procedure.
In regard to the actual electrical contacts and body (item 2),which I mentioned is available over the counter at NAPA, I know the part number for a MY65 is KS6379, but off hand for any 61 thru 64 I DO NOT HAVE AT HAND.
Take note these switches over time fail as the half plastic/half pot metal body's separate at the seams do to the internal spring pressure. BOTH OEM and REPOP.
On the subject of Item 3 the patch cord, this is to repair loose or failing connections in the plug that mates to the body of the ignition switch and is self explanatory.
Hope that helped.
CDN Member since 1975 #2086
Flock: 1964 Landau Original Family Owned
1964 Sr Convertible "RAVEN"
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by ricklove »

Raven; Thanks for the input. The set that I purchased from eBay was the ignition switch "tumbler" and the door(s) tumblers with 2 sets of keys. I didn't want to have separate keys for the ignition and the doors (plus the trunk). The "kit" from NAPA ($19.29) is the complete ignition switch with keys; but not the door tumblers. With what I purchased from eBay, do I need the wiring kit and the switch kit from Mac's? As usual, the older Ford ignition switch is a weak link and I'd rather replace the entire assy now vs the point where the key doesn't work at all (as the original poster of this thread). Thanks!
RAVEN
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by RAVEN »

First off do you have all items in hand? AND the items you have are correct.
To my knowledge the key tumblers are the same body 61 thru 64 so are interchangeable from ignition switch to ignition switch, so you can rekey to have doors match the ignition.
With this in mind, you should be able to take the NAPA unit, remove the key tumbler, and insert your EBay tumbler and end up with a common keyed with new ignition switch unit and door lock set.
"IF" the car wiring is in good condition, and the plug is in good condition, then no further parts are required. just assemble and go
Do your self a favour though, and check and verify the assembly joint on the actual ignition switch body. As I mentioned previous, the pot metal crimp is not the most trust worthy marriage, and has shown separation. Also be aware when you plug in the new ignition switch to the car harness, you may notice an unused exposed spade terminal, IGNORE it, it is a redundant pin used for another application on a different vehicle.
CDN Member since 1975 #2086
Flock: 1964 Landau Original Family Owned
1964 Sr Convertible "RAVEN"
Past: 2003 Blk Lab "RAVEN" "RIP"Nov 15/17
1964 Lincoln vin4Y86N00007
1964 Red Convertible
ricklove
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by ricklove »

Thanks!!!
MN63Tbird
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by MN63Tbird »

Its been a few years since I removed my ignition key assembly and replaced the door locks, but if my memory is correct on the ignition switch assembly the awkward part is removing the bezel to get the assembly out and replacing it. There is always the bit of pain crawling under the dash to remove the wiring harness and the a clip there that needs to be taken off to release the ignition switch assembly. Be careful when you pull the wiring harness off that none of the wires pull loose from the harness. When you reassemble it is easy to install the new unit with the key either going in your current way or upside down. Either will start the car. Just check before you reassemble.

Regarding the door locks if you want to remove the current tumblers and replace them or if you just want to rekey them the procedure is the same. You need to remove the inside door panel and work your hand and tools up a narrow opening to the door lock. Once you loosen the nut and disconnect from the locking arms it is fairly straight forward to pull out. Even though you purchased new ones if they are in good shape I would suggest holding on to them . Any locksmith can easily rekey them to your new key. The same is true if your center console lock does not match the trunk lock. It too can be rekeyed.

MN63
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
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Steverino
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by Steverino »

So back on this little challenge, after life getting in the way...

Shop manual says to remove lock cylinder, and then if you want to remove ignition switch push the switch from behind, rotate 1/8 turn counterclockwise and remove bezel & switch.

I have been unable to return my lock to the accessory position, which is necessary to remove the cylinder. I figure either the lock cylinder or the switch iself has failed and some part is protruding internally.

I am hoping I can just remove everything all together instead. I have messed around with it some, and can get the switch assembly to rotate, but haven't been able to figure out how to remove bezel and switch from dash.

Is it possible to take out the switch and lock as one assembly? Or would that be too easy for thieves and am I stuck until I figure out how to get the lock cylinder out first?
Steve
'62 Landau

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Jim Wulf
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Re: Ignition switch & lock issue

Post by Jim Wulf »

Steverino wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 9:06 pm So back on this little challenge, after life getting in the way...

Shop manual says to remove lock cylinder, and then if you want to remove ignition switch push the switch from behind, rotate 1/8 turn counterclockwise and remove bezel & switch.

I have been unable to return my lock to the accessory position, which is necessary to remove the cylinder. I figure either the lock cylinder or the switch iself has failed and some part is protruding internally.

I am hoping I can just remove everything all together instead. I have messed around with it some, and can get the switch assembly to rotate, but haven't been able to figure out how to remove bezel and switch from dash.

Is it possible to take out the switch and lock as one assembly? Or would that be too easy for thieves and am I stuck until I figure out how to get the lock cylinder out first?
Steve,

I think your only alternative is to remove the entire sub dash assembly with the ignition switch installed, take it to a locksmith and let him deal with the cylinder. I think he should be able to remove the cylinder with his specialized tools. It's really not that difficult to take the dash assembly out, but it is time consuming.
Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
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