Power Steering Fluid

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stevegintn
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by stevegintn »

Sounds legit to me, Karl?
- but academic for me, as my 62 has no filter.

However, after I put on a reservoir lid gasket and topped off the fluid, my growling seems to be gone? (from my car, that is, I still growl regularly)
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N
tbird
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by tbird »

Karl

I do not believe that the later Eaton style pumps had this filter in it and can confirm that when they went to the Ford Thompson pump on A/C equipped 65 MY and all 66 MY cars did not have any filtration system on them. The Ford Thompson pump can certainly foam and have to be bled to get rid of the air also. Best way to do this on either pump is to lift the front of the car so it is not sitting on the ground, make sure that the oil is close to the full mark.
Start the car and have someone turn on the wipers on the 63 and later and slowly turn the steering from lock to lock, be watchful that the oil level does not get below add or you will just get more air and foam in the system. Once the aeration stops top up the oil level and it should be good providing that there is no air leaks in the return hose that the system can suck air through.
Jim Mills
VTCI # 8071
VTCI 1964-66 Technical Editor
2002 Thunderbird
1965 Convertible
1962 Convertible (in progress)
1959 Ford Retractable HT
Many parts cars
jgreene1
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by jgreene1 »

I am one of the posts from last year in regard to foaming, groaning power steering on a 1963 Thunderbird. All of the hoses are new, and so is the pump. It still continues to foam, and nothing I do gets rid of it. I can crank the wheel back and forth and get the bubbles out (then adding fluid,) I have tried starting it going slightly back and forth, and then shutting it off. The foam then spews out over the top of the reservoir. I do it like the manual suggests, including turning on the wipers. I realize that it probably has a leak on the suction side---but how do I find it? The mechanic has been unable to find the issue. I also know on the suction side there won't be a leak. The filter is new, as I replaced it as a precautionary measure. Stumped!
Jim
jgreene1
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by jgreene1 »

I now have an update on the groaning in the power steering system in my 1963 Thunderbird. I talked to someone at Lares Corporation about the cavitation groaning issues on my year of Tbird. He said it can be very difficult to get the air out of these systems, but he was familiar with them. He suggested just turning the wheel back and forth, maybe a quarter of a turn each way, and then shutting the car off, while it is sitting there. When I started this procedure It then proceeded to bubble PS fluid out of the top of the reservoir, like it was boiling, all over the rag underneath it. He also advised me to walk away from it for an hour, and come back and add fluid to the fill mark, and then do it again. I believe I did this five or six times, and I was believing to think I was wasting my time, and I had a "secret" leak somewhere. However, it did start to improve because there was less groaning when I would take it out for a short drive. Each time I took it for a drive the foaming was less. After each drive I would check the level, add fluid, and of course I was still looking for the foaming issues. Then I would take it out in the street and weave back and forth, going slowly, with the wipers on, and then pull it back in the garage and check the fluid. Of course my neighbors now think I am crazy, but oh well. The interesting thing is that after doing this, I would let the car sit there overnight with the cover off of the reservoir, starting with the fluid being at the correct level. The next morning the fluid would be down about 1/2 inch. So then I started looking for leaks, including while it was running, and found none. I believe I went through this drive, weave, and add fluid procedure three times, and each time I would add fluid the next morning. Now no more fluid has to be added, and the groaning has stopped. I took it on a 40 mile car tour on this past Saturday, including a very tight back and forth parking situation, and it did beautifully. The steering made no noises during the very tight parking situation. What a relief!
Jim
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RedBird64
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by RedBird64 »

Wow, that was a stubborn one!
Thanks for letting us know how it all turned out.

Scott
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 42 years. It was my folks car before that (second owners). VTCI # 12013.
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Karl
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by Karl »

Persistence paid off. I'll keep that in mind.
Karl.
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
jgreene1
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by jgreene1 »

Just took the '63 Tbird to dinner at a friends house, which was about a 20 mile trip total. Noticed a little groaning, but the steering acted normal, as in the amount of effort required. Took the top off of the reservoir when I got home, and it was up slightly, but no foam...........
More to Come.
Jim
stevegintn
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by stevegintn »

After I installed a new gasket on the reservoir cap and topped off the fluid, mine is way better, so guess I got lucky?
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N
jgreene1
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by jgreene1 »

My '63 Tbird has again picked up a groan, but this time very mild. The cover is now difficult to get off as if suction is holding it place. Wiggling and turning of the cover finally gets it to come loose---the gasket and the filter have been replaced. I noticed some fluid coming out of the top, where the wing nut holds down the lid (mine has factory air so remote reservoir,) when I checked it the other day after a drive. Has anyone had one have enough suction in the power steering system so you can't get the top off? I wish I could find a "theoretical" explanation about the way these systems worked. The service manual is just the basics.
Jim
stevegintn
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by stevegintn »

Sorry, Jim - no idea.
When you get the cap off, is the fluid all way to top of reservoir?
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N
MN63Tbird
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by MN63Tbird »

The power steering reservoir should not be under pressure nor under vacuum. It should be a balanced system at atmospheric pressure to work well. A vacuum does mean that your power steering pump is working effectively. If a pump is primed it can pull a vacuum on a closed system. The trick I tried that worked well is to have 2 flat washers under the wing nut. This allowed enough pressure to hold the cap down but since the two washers don't make a great seal it allows enough of a pressure or vacuum relief out the top of the reservoir to keep the reservoir at atmospheric pressure. Give that a shot and see if it clears up your last bit of concern.

MN63
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code
jgreene1
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by jgreene1 »

Thank you for the suggestions on the top cap of the reservoir. When I take the top off of the reservoir the fluid is at the top, and now appears to be a bit too full.
Thank you!
Jim
jgreene1
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by jgreene1 »

Ok I think I have the power steering groaning/cavitation issue fixed. I read somewhere on this website that the hole in the center of the PS cover has to be vented. I managed to lose the little rubber gasket or washer that went into the hole that the steel shaft comes up through on the lid (wing nut then screws onto that shaft). I replaced it with something, as it turns out, that cut off any air flow, so that caused the groaning. I replaced it with three steel gaskets, which for now is working. The Tbird parts places do not have this little gasket, so this may have to work. Now I need to look at other blogs, and find out why my brake pedal comes so close to the floor, upon application.
Jim
arunice
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by arunice »

Just fired mine up tonight after putting new seals in the steering gearbox. I need some advice or reassurance from you guys. The pump and box was dry, I added fluid and fired it up, the steering wheel cranked all the way to the left on it's own. I fought it back all the way to the right then back left and shut it down. Refilled the pump as it had sucked it all in to the gearbox. Started it again amd am still fighting the ghost turning it left on its own.

I intend on trying again by tuning all the way left and right, turn on wipers and check fluid level. Has anyone else had the ghost take of the steering wheel and crank it all the way to the left?
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Alan H. Tast
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Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by Alan H. Tast »

Part of the process to bleed air out of the system is to turn the wheel all the way left and right numerous times and keep filling the reservoir until groaning stops.
Alan H. Tast, AIA
Technical Director/Past President,
Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
1963 Hardtop & 1963 Sports Roadster
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