Windshield trim fit

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Steverino
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Windshield trim fit

Post by Steverino »

I'm in the process of putting things back together after my vinyl top installation, and have run into an interesting issue. The two stainless top corner moldings are sitting fairly proud of the new rubber windshield gasket. The drivers side is especially high. However, the screw holes line up on the A pillars, and there is proper overlap with the center trim, so I don't think there really is any adjusting to be done.

I confess I didn't take special note of how the trims interacted with the old windshield gasket, but am fairly confident there wasn't a gap like this one.

Curious for any input on this before I just accept it and move on.
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Steve
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Jim Wulf
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by Jim Wulf »

That should fit a whole lot better than that, Steve, with no gap. Post or send me a few more pictures, with various angles if you can.
Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
62 SR Red/Black
63 CV Black/Red
67 MGB Roadster
38 MG TA Tickford Drophead Coupe
39 Lea-Francis Corsica Super Sports
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Steverino
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by Steverino »

Thanks Jim... I agree! I can't see how to improve it, short of bending the piece. But I also can't see how it is so different from the previous fit. You'll note that it is properly overlapping the center, and the A-pillar portion is firmly against the rubber gasket. The A-pillar screw hole is lined up too. See below.
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Steve
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birdwatcher
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by birdwatcher »

it appears to me that the windshield gasket is not installed correctly on the sides of the windshield. The top corners and top sides are the most
problematic to get just right. Looks like a lot of sealant was used, could be causing the gasket to sit out to far in the corners.JMO
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Steverino
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by Steverino »

Thanks for your ideas, Birdwatcher...

I can tell you that I was actually pretty sparing with the sealant, as I didn't have a lot on hand. There is basically one bead around the entire steel opening, and one bead in the glass channel. I did use a bit to fill in along the side after installation. As to the gasket fit, I am not sure how I would have done it differently, or how it could be shifted in such a way as to eliminate this fit issue. The inner lip is fully engaged all the way around (using the string method).

Though, I freely admit that this is my first windshield and I am therefore far, far from being an expert. :mrgreen:

I will look at it further and see if I can figure out a way where re-aligning the gasket would result in a better trim fit. It almost feels like the A-pillar rubber is just thicker than original, which is causing the corner molding to sit too high. Unfortunately I didn't keep the original so I don't have a reference point. I believe this rubber is from Dennis Carpenter...
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Steverino
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by Steverino »

Just wanted to give this a little bump. Any further ideas?

I’ve looked and looked and have yet to see what I did wrong. :sad:

I’m left to guess that this new gasket is slightly different than the old one.

Thanks in advance!
Steve
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BobHH
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by BobHH »

Have you compared the old gasket with the new one? Something seems wrong with the window gasket. The chrome should push in with a little effort.
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Steverino
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by Steverino »

Thanks Bob... Because this project has been running on a glacial time frame, unfortunately I didn't keep the old gasket - I should know better by now. Usually I do hang onto old parts until the new ones are in place, but the old gasket was messy and awkward, and hey - what good would it possibly be? :roll:

The new gasket does have the slot across the top to accommodate the "fin" under the header trim strip, and that is pushed into place as it should be.

Hindsight being 20/20, I should have taken pictures of the parts in place as I took it apart. I've done that with mechanical assemblies, but didn't anticipate I would need to compare fit like this.
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BobHH
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by BobHH »

Well, unfortunately I have not pulled a T-bird windshield yet. I do have the windshield in my donor car I may try to pull a piece of trim to look at the older gasket to take some measurements. You may want to contact Jim Wulf. He's done a lot on these 62-63's. Maybe he can share some knowledge!!
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Steverino
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by Steverino »

Would appreciate any measurements and/or a couple of pics with the trim in place and also the gasket underneath. @Jim Wulf did comment above - perhaps he'll chime in again.
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by Jim Wulf »

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BobHH wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:35 pm Well, unfortunately I have not pulled a T-bird windshield yet. I do have the windshield in my donor car I may try to pull a piece of trim to look at the older gasket to take some measurements. You may want to contact Jim Wulf. He's done a lot on these 62-63's. Maybe he can share some knowledge!!
Steve,

Here I am, late to the party again. By pure luck, I happen to have a 63 SR here in the shop with its original windshield complete with bug mark, and I presume, the original gasket. This car was driven for several years when first purchased, then restored (and I use the term loosely) and consequently spent many years in a museum in Michigan. Then the museum was closed, the cars were all sold, and this car was driven sparingly for a few years after that, hence the rare surviving original windshield. The car was sent to me by the new/present owner so that I can correct the numerous deficiencies in the so-called restoration.

Anyhoo, I've gotten a little creative and have taken a couple of gasket height measurements. I've attached several photos of the gasket and trim at the top left corner, the same area that Steve shows in his photos. The first photo illustrates how I took the measurements. Basically, I laid a standard machinist 6" pocket ruler on edge on the top of the gasket with the square end of the ruler butted against the trim. The opposite, rounded end was laid on the windshield glass, with the ruler being held perpendicular to the trim. I then took a digital caliper and used the depth function to find the height from the top edge of the ruler to the glass, and then subtracted the width of the ruler, .465" in this case, to come up with the height of the gasket above the glass. (I know, the picture doesn't show the end of the caliper against the glass, but I was just trying to get a picture of the setup in this shot and my needed third hand didn't make an appearance. The end was definitely on the glass when actually taking the measurement). Each measurement was taken at the end of the corner trim piece where it met either the top or side trim. The gasket height at the top/header trim piece location was .209" and at the side/pillar trim piece was .187". If your measurements vary widely from mine, it could explain the fitment issue you're having. If not, then I'm stumped.

You'll notice that the trim pieces don't fit exactly as they should, and this is one of the items I'll be correcting on the car. Not hard to do by simply removing the trim and applying a little judicious bending of the bottom tab. This is a common issue that I've seen and addressed before, specifically on my friend Bill Clark's former '63 M Code that many of you saw at Charleston, Houston, and finally New Orleans where it garnered 300 pts. and B.O.S. A truly spectacular car!

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Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
62 SR Red/Black
63 CV Black/Red
67 MGB Roadster
38 MG TA Tickford Drophead Coupe
39 Lea-Francis Corsica Super Sports
Past Birds:
63 MSR Red/Pearl Beige
66 CV Red/Red
63 CV P. Green/Pearl Beige
61 HT White/Pearl Beige
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Steverino
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by Steverino »

THANK YOU JIM! (sorry...had to shout :mrgreen: )

I'll check your measurements on my car and report back, hopefully tonight. One thing I think I see: your car's corner trim goes up a bit in the corner, just like mine. It looks, though, like your gasket also goes up (gets vertically thicker) a bit in the same place, so that there isn't any gap between rubber and trim.

I wonder if the issue is really that my rubber gasket lays flatter (or more evenly) than the original. Maybe the original gasket actually pushed up a bit around the corner??

Don't know if this makes sense. Would be an easier conversation in person with cars side x side.
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by Jim Wulf »

Steverino wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:43 pm THANK YOU JIM! (sorry...had to shout :mrgreen: )

I'll check your measurements on my car and report back, hopefully tonight. One thing I think I see: your car's corner trim goes up a bit in the corner, just like mine. It looks, though, like your gasket also goes up (gets vertically thicker) a bit in the same place, so that there isn't any gap between rubber and trim.

I wonder if the issue is really that my rubber gasket lays flatter (or more evenly) than the original. Maybe the original gasket actually pushed up a bit around the corner??

Don't know if this makes sense. Would be an easier conversation in person with cars side x side.
I see what you're saying Steve. I'll take another measurement at the peak of the corner and see what I get.
Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
62 SR Red/Black
63 CV Black/Red
67 MGB Roadster
38 MG TA Tickford Drophead Coupe
39 Lea-Francis Corsica Super Sports
Past Birds:
63 MSR Red/Pearl Beige
66 CV Red/Red
63 CV P. Green/Pearl Beige
61 HT White/Pearl Beige
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by Jim Wulf »

Jim Wulf wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:32 pm
Steverino wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:43 pm THANK YOU JIM! (sorry...had to shout :mrgreen: )

I'll check your measurements on my car and report back, hopefully tonight. One thing I think I see: your car's corner trim goes up a bit in the corner, just like mine. It looks, though, like your gasket also goes up (gets vertically thicker) a bit in the same place, so that there isn't any gap between rubber and trim.

I wonder if the issue is really that my rubber gasket lays flatter (or more evenly) than the original. Maybe the original gasket actually pushed up a bit around the corner??

Don't know if this makes sense. Would be an easier conversation in person with cars side x side.
I see what you're saying Steve. I'll take another measurement at the peak of the corner and see what I get.
OK, just took more measurements:
Left corner peak gasket height - .228"
Right corner peak gasket height - .238"
Right top/header gasket height - .231"
Right side/pillar gasket height - .210

Lots of variation as you might expect from a molded rubber gasket forced around a relatively sharp radius corner, but at least it may give you some frame of reference with a "new" original windshield/gasket installation.

I will add that I've installed windshield trim on several cars with new gaskets, and haven't seen a problem as pronounced as you obviously have. Any issues which I may have had, and at this point I have no clear recollection of anything I would deem as serious, were resolved to my satisfaction, meaning the installation would have had to be perfect or they wouldn't have left my shop. :cool: Another point which may be worth mentioning is that all of the cars I've done have been convertibles or Sports Roadsters. Different gaskets!
Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
62 SR Red/Black
63 CV Black/Red
67 MGB Roadster
38 MG TA Tickford Drophead Coupe
39 Lea-Francis Corsica Super Sports
Past Birds:
63 MSR Red/Pearl Beige
66 CV Red/Red
63 CV P. Green/Pearl Beige
61 HT White/Pearl Beige
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Jim Wulf
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Re: Windshield trim fit

Post by Jim Wulf »

I will add that I've installed windshield trim on several cars with new gaskets, and haven't seen a problem as pronounced as you obviously have. Any issues which I may have had, and at this point I have no clear recollection of anything I would deem as serious, were resolved to my satisfaction, meaning the installation would have had to be perfect or they wouldn't have left my shop. :cool: Another point which may be worth mentioning is that all of the cars I've done have been convertibles or Sports Roadsters. Different gaskets!
I do have a '63 hardtop parts car here that still has the windshield installed. I don't remember if it has the original windshield installed or not, but at any rate, I'll take the same measurements on that car tomorrow.
Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
62 SR Red/Black
63 CV Black/Red
67 MGB Roadster
38 MG TA Tickford Drophead Coupe
39 Lea-Francis Corsica Super Sports
Past Birds:
63 MSR Red/Pearl Beige
66 CV Red/Red
63 CV P. Green/Pearl Beige
61 HT White/Pearl Beige
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