Brake/tail lights

[michaelperazzo]

Hello, I am a new owner of a 62 Thunderbird and it has a few issues. The first that I am tackling is the brake and tail lights. Currently there are no tail lights coming on when the headlights or parking lights are on. The front parking lights are ok. Brake lights work but are very dim, kind of what you expect the tail lights to look like. Turn signals work on the rear but are also very dim. The previous owner just replaced the headlight switch. The bulbs are 1157's in the tail lights, and are good bulbs, the socket is clean and I measure 12v on both contacts in the socket when the parking lights are on which I thought was odd. The only thing I can think to check is a good ground connection, anyone have a similar problem before?

[ICON 1956]

Check the brake line pressure switch these are universal it is under the master cylinder. easy to replace. start with first.
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[MN63Tbird]

Michael congratulations on your new Tbird. You will need 3 things to help solve the issue. First is a wiring diagram. They are fairly cheap from almost all the Tbird parts vendors. Second is a piece of 12 to 16 gauge wire about 25-30 ft long with alligator clips on each end and finally a ohm meter with audio continuity feature. If you trace your wires from the tail lights back they are color coded which should match the wiring diagram. The wires go from the tail lights to the rear seat on the drivers side to the center cowl, past the glove box and power window switches to the front dash board. A dim light can be do to a short or improper ground. No lights can be due to a break in the wiring. 50 yr old wire can get brittle. A common point of breakage is where the wired do some 90 degree bends such as under the back seat. This is where the wire and ohm meter can come in handy. You can use them to test continuity for a broken wire or jumper across the wires to provide a power source from the battery or light switch back to the rear lights to test out the integrity of the lights and their housing (which is one point of grounding) Good luck

MN63

[Karl]

G'day Michael. Congratulations on your purchase.
As MN63 said, you will need a wiring diagram if you haven't already purchased one.

The stop lights and indicator lights and circuit are one and the same (if you haven't figured that out by now), the stop light wires go through the indicator switch.

If you have 12v at both the contacts in the socket then there is something wrong here, this could be why the lights are dim.
If the previous owner replaced the light switch, double check that he has connected it correctly. The next thing to check would be the earths. Weather the car is a modern or old car a bad earth can give you some weird results.

Also with the dim lights (and I understand that you could have dim lights with a bad earth), when I read this I think what are you comparing it too. I look at my 63 car and I think these lights are a bit dim and the difference between the indicator and tail light is not that much. If I compare it to a vehicle that was built in the 40's or 50's with a 6v system then the T'Bird's lights are bright. If I compare it to a modern car, then the lights are dim.
Also take into account the lens, is it dirty, cracked and dull, this is not going to help. Is the reflector or tail light bucket shiny, I believe they were metalized to give a good reflection. If yours is dirty and the plating peeling this is not going to help.

In the boot (trunk) the wires go out of this area near the filler neck and then go to the respective lights. There are some connections here, chances are one of the wires is connected the wrong way. Get your wiring diagram and double check the correct colours are plugged together.

Karl.

[michaelperazzo]

Thanks for the replies, will be awhile until I can get out there and work on it, I will post an update soon.

[michaelperazzo]

OK so I started at the light switch as the PO said he just replaced it. Had 12v for tail lights there. Traced back to the connections in the trunk and also found 12v there. Checked the bulb socket and found 12v. Checked the bulb, put 12v on the bottom connections and grounded the body, very bright. Plugged the bulb in the socket, nothing. Either the bulb is not fitting in the socket correctly or maybe I have a ground problem. The reverse lights work and are very bright.

I am thinking about putting a little clay or something on the bulb end and installing it in the socket to see if the connections are touching properly. To replace the socket assembly it looks like need to remove the bumper. The socket looks new, maybe someone installed them incorrectly or they are the wrong ones?

Any one have any other ideas?

Thanks,

Michael.

[tbird]

Check if you have power and a ground at the socket its self.

[Karl]

G'day.
You say that the bulb socket has been replaced. As far as I know the only way that the socket can be replaced is by replacing the bucket unless a previous owner has just replaced the socket. These are crimped into the bucket. Sometimes they become loose where they are crimped in and this will not give you a good ground. Also the spring in the bulb holder looses its strength and doesn't apply enough pressure to the globe causing a bad connection.
Karl.

[michaelperazzo]

OK, so did a little work on it today. I took a small grounded wire and carefully touched the side of the bulb socket and the tail light came on bright! Went from nothing to full bright. So the issue is the socket ground on both sides.The socket pig tail has 3 wires 1 of which looks like it is grounded to the bumper somehow... I think this is not connected.

So the question is, how do I ground the bulb socket with out pulling the bumper? or drilling out the backing plate... must be a way! I need to think about it and If anyone has a good idea?

Thanks,

Michael.

[55Greg&Amy]

I’ve read somewhere that someone actually removed the lense and bulb then put a very tiny sheet metal screw between the socket and metal housing which completed the ground. Reinstalled the bulb and lense. This was all done without the need to remove the bumper in order to tighten the socket to the housing from the backside.

[Karl]

G'day.
Along the same lines as "55Greg&Amy", I had a look at a spare bucket that I have. On the back of the socket there is a larger diameter of socket housing than there is in the front. If you were to use a very small drill it seems you may be able to drill a small hole through the lip on the outside of the socket, through the bucket and into the back lip on the housing. Then you may be able to fit a very small self tapping screw into the hole and sandwich the three pieces together and fix this loose earth.
Here is a photo of the rear of the bucket, you can see the larger ring that you may be able to tap into.

Karl.

[Joe Johnston]

Wouldn't it work if you just attached a separate wire to the spade lug and the other end to a screw or bolt somewhere convenient?

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[Karl]

Yes it would Joe. But the problem is getting to the spade terminal. I don't think you can get to it unless you drop the bumper.

[michaelperazzo]

OK, I fixed it. Turns out the bucket is not grounded, not sure why seems like it should be. The bumper is, so my idea was to drill a small hole inside the bucket into the bumper and put in a small screw with a wire attaching it somehow to the bulb socket.I drilled and put in the screw and the light got real bright! I guess that grounded the bucket which in turn grounded the bulb socket. I did both sides and both work reasonably well now, tail lights and brakes. Hopefully this is a lasting fix. Might replace both lenses and gaskets, lots of cracks. Thanks for the help everyone!

[Bungalocity]

Michael, I am starting out on very similar conditions as you had - new headlamp switch and this seems to do nothing.
Close the door and parking/tail/dash lights go out...they're only on when switch is clicked far left.

Also when turning lights fully on from parking...all the above mentioned turns off
Keep you and all here posted