Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

This area is for posting questions/information concerning 1961-63 year Thunderbirds NO FOR SALE POSTINGS

Moderator: ABQTBird

Post Reply
User avatar
eb88
Posts: 516
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:04 pm
Location: London, UK.

Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by eb88 »

Just ordered a pair of front wheel cylinders listed as "RAYBESTOS WC35074 and WC35073"

Image

Hoping they would have the correctly drilled angle of bleed screw. Shame on me for thinking I'd receive what the photo showed.

I remember this being an issue a few years ago, and wondered if anyone had a source or a solution.

Thank in advance.
VTCI #12029

'55
'62 Sports Roadster
'63 Sports Roadster
User avatar
Alan H. Tast
Posts: 4214
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:52 pm
Location: Omaha, NE

Re: Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by Alan H. Tast »

My solution going forward is getting what original-style cylinders I can scrounge up, have them sleeved in brass and get rebuild kits while they're still available.

I just had an original master cylinder sleeved, rebuilt and installed for my '63 Sports Roadster after going through failure of the one that was on the car when I got it two years ago. The one that was on the car failed because of a bad O-ring, a heavily pitted cylinder bore and lots of crud in the cylinder itself - I don't think it had been gone through since it was put back on the road in the mid-late '90s, and yet I did have the system flushed with new fluid after I got it home from KC to outside of Omaha. Apple Hydraulic in NY state charged $95 to sleeve it and another $80 to rebuild (quite frankly I didn't have the time to do the rebuild myself, but did have the credit card set to 'stun'), and they will also do wheel cylinders for around $75 or so.

I'm holding my breath as to what the wheel cylinders will look like, and need to start going through my pile of used cylinders to pick out a full set or two to get sleeved. There's a reason I don't throw away things like these...
Alan H. Tast, AIA
Technical Director/Past President,
Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
1963 Hardtop & 1963 Sports Roadster
User avatar
Karl
Posts: 993
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:03 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by Karl »

G'day,
Tell me, does the bleed nipple have a metric size hex as well? The after market one's that I purchase did, all the other threads were imperial but I needed a metric spanner to do the bleed nipple up. And the aftermarket ones for the rear didn't last that long either, one developed a small leak, it turned out there was a small hole in the casting and the fluid was weeping through the hole past the rubber cup. So much for quality control in China.

My thoughts are the same as Alan. Don't throw anything away.
I had the same problem until I found some original one's and had them re-sleeved, although I had them done in stainless steel. I was told that they would last a life time, I won't be holding my breath, that's for sure.

I did read on this forum a long time ago that somebody was thinking or did grind the spindle away to give clearance to the nipple, Man there is no way I would do that, put my family lives and the lives of other road uses to such a risk let alone what would happen if the insurance found out. They would dump you like a school port.

There is some bleed nipples out there that have a very small head and are only short with these you may be able to find some very thin wall section plastic tube that will fit.

If you can't get the plastic tube over the nipple what you can do to bleed the brakes is one person pushes the brake pedal down, when the brake pedal is down another person undoes the bleed nipple. When all the fluid / air has come out on this stroke you close of the nipple, then the other person releases the brake pedal. He then pushes the brake pedal down again, when the pedal is to the floor then you release the bleed nipple again. Keep repeating this process.
By closing of the bleed nipple before the brake pedal is released, this stops the air entering the system. It does make a mess everywhere because the fluid is not contained, you can jam a lot of rags everywhere to catch the brake fluid. Try not to get the brake fluid onto any paint as it will strip the paint off.

Karl.
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
User avatar
eb88
Posts: 516
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:04 pm
Location: London, UK.

Re: Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by eb88 »

So a hunt for old stock or used originals for sleeving and rebuilding it is. Could someone kindly post the original Ford part numbers for these two parts?
Thanks again.
VTCI #12029

'55
'62 Sports Roadster
'63 Sports Roadster
User avatar
Karl
Posts: 993
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:03 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by Karl »

G'day,
According to the Master Parts Catalog,

Front 61/62, 1-3/32" dia
R/H C2VY-2061-A
L/H C2VY-2062-A

Rear 61/62, 7/8" dia
R/H C3AZ-2261-B
L/H C3AZ-2262-B

Front 63/64, 1-3/32"dia
R/H C2VY-2061-A
L/H C2VY-2062-A

Rear 63/64, 15/16"
R/H C2VY-2261-A
L/H C2VY-2262-A
There is a couple of confusing items.
1/ On the front, Separate listing for 61/62 and 63/64 but the numbers are the same. I think they are different though, not sure on this one.
2/ Why would the 61/62 rear have a part number starting with C3AZ and 63/64 have a part number starting with C2VY.

The numbers that are cast on the wheel cyl themselves will be different.
Karl.
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
User avatar
Alan H. Tast
Posts: 4214
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:52 pm
Location: Omaha, NE

Re: Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by Alan H. Tast »

Karl wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:09 pm G'day,
According to the Master Parts Catalog,

Front 61/62, 1-3/32" dia
R/H C2VY-2061-A
L/H C2VY-2062-A

Rear 61/62, 7/8" dia
R/H C3AZ-2261-B
L/H C3AZ-2262-B

Front 63/64, 1-3/32"dia
R/H C2VY-2061-A
L/H C2VY-2062-A

Rear 63/64, 15/16"
R/H C2VY-2261-A
L/H C2VY-2262-A
There is a couple of confusing items.
1/ On the front, Separate listing for 61/62 and 63/64 but the numbers are the same. I think they are different though, not sure on this one.
2/ Why would the 61/62 rear have a part number and 63/64 have a part number starting with C2VY.

Remember, if you're looking in the "Blue Bible" it contains a LOT of parts that were revised between original issue and when it was printed in 1969.

The numbers that are cast on the wheel cyl themselves will be different.
Karl.
Answer:
1. Duplicate listings are not uncommon in the MPC, especially in the interim loose-leaf versions, and especially if a part had been given a unique number to begin with but was then superseded by another - in this case the '62 Lincoln front cylinders;
2. Because originals for '61-'62 rears were superseded by a similar part. The '63 (and probably '64) full-size Ford probably used the same 7/8"-dia. bore size ('62-prior full-size probably were smaller).
Alan H. Tast, AIA
Technical Director/Past President,
Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
1963 Hardtop & 1963 Sports Roadster
User avatar
Jim Wulf
Posts: 2176
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:19 pm
Location: S.E. Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by Jim Wulf »

Look for AC Delco NOS on Ebay. They show up off and on. I don't know if the newly manufactured cylinders with this part number would have correctly angled bleeder screws, but the older NOS units do. Summit lists them new, and the pictures show an angled bleed screw, but we all know how that goes.


NOS numbers if you can find them:
18E31 Left
18E32 Right

Summit's new units:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-18e31
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-18e32

Edited to read left and right, not front and rear. Don't know what I was thinking. Duh.
Last edited by Jim Wulf on Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jim W, VTCI 1961-1963 Technical Editor
62 SR Red/Black
63 CV Black/Red
67 MGB Roadster
38 MG TA Tickford Drophead Coupe
39 Lea-Francis Corsica Super Sports
Past Birds:
63 MSR Red/Pearl Beige
66 CV Red/Red
63 CV P. Green/Pearl Beige
61 HT White/Pearl Beige
User avatar
eb88
Posts: 516
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:04 pm
Location: London, UK.

Re: Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by eb88 »

Fantastic replies, all the info I was hoping for.

I'd roll the dice on the AC Delco ones on Summits site but the shipping is prohibitive (even for me, I do not usually mind!)

Image

I can take a gamble on this Dorman brand i've found (Dorman W35074) as I can get it through amazon and shipping is less than $10 unless anyone has already tried.

Image

In the meantime i'll look out for nos. Thank you all.
VTCI #12029

'55
'62 Sports Roadster
'63 Sports Roadster
BobHH
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:04 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by BobHH »

Yep, I purchased a set from AutoZone. I got them to fit with a little massaging with a die grinder. Only issue is all 4 bleeder screws are different sizes!!! I have a new set of the AC Delco on the shelf for the restoration.
Bob Harris
Strange 1962 Thunderbird SR?
davashcow
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:58 am

Re: Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by davashcow »

Just curious...how do folks who install these replacement wheel cylinders with minimal/no clearance get them bled initially? I’ve got a set on my ‘63 with no room at all but somebody obviously bled them at some point.
User avatar
Karl
Posts: 993
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:03 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by Karl »

G'day.
I don't know how other people would do it but from memory with the wrong cylinder if you were to cut the top of the bleed nipple off but leave the hex. To bleed the system all you have to do is apply the brake pedal and have somebody undo the bleed nipple. The fluid will squirt out all over the place, maybe stuff rags everywhere to absorb the brake fluid. Before you release the brake pedal have the person do up the bleed nipple so when you release the brake pedal air is not sucked back into the line. Keep repeating the process.
Karl.
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
User avatar
RedBird64
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:42 pm
Location: Bothell Wa.

Re: Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by RedBird64 »

As Alan suggested, have the originals sleeved.
I did that with mine and the cost was not a lot more than getting junk new ones and you not only don't have to worry about fit, they'll never corrode.

Scott
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 42 years. It was my folks car before that (second owners). VTCI # 12013.
User avatar
Karl
Posts: 993
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:03 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by Karl »

True, it is a better way to go. I had mine re-sleeved with stainless steel - time will tell if it is any good.
But if you don't have any originals, what is your options, make your own - now there is a good idea. Somebody out there must know somebody that works at a small non ferrous foundry.
Karl
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
MN63Tbird
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:38 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: Correct Front Wheel Cylinders for '63

Post by MN63Tbird »

Back to the original 2019 question of how to bleed these wheel cylinders (-a new thread probably should have been started) I am curious is anyone has a good method. As Davashcow posted it is difficult to bleed. When I replaced mine a few years ago I had to take the backing plate off to get the front wheel cylinders and brake hoses off. There is almost no room to get a wrench in behind the backing plate to remove either part due to the raised profile of the edge of the plate. Once installed there is also no room to open or close the bleed valve. What I did was not pretty but I left the bleed open installed the brakes and drums with the backing plate partially installed by the bottom two bolts. This way I could tilt the brake assembly and get a wrench behind the plate to close off the bleed valve . I was able to close the valve after I pushed brake fluid through and saw no air. I then removed the drum and bolted back on the backing plate. Has anyone come up with an easier procedure?

MN63
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code
Post Reply