1963 TBird won't start

[hemicharger69]

I've done tune-ups myself a million times but this time I'm stumped.

1963 TBird hardtop 390ci 4BBL factory no mods. 130K mi. A/C.

New points, dist cap, rotor, condenser, coil, spark plugs.

Was running fine after tune-up last weekend. Ran 10 mi. approx. since tune up.

This morning, decided I wanted to "dial-it-in" perfectly so it would cold start at the turn of the key after 1-2 secs. As opposed to having to crank it for 15 sec before it turns over. Perfectionist.

27-30 dwell, 12 deg BTDC, 0.17 points gap. Now the thing won't fire. I checked plug 1 at TDC and it appears to be at highest point in rotation. I cannot turn the crack by hand so I starter crank the engine until the timing mark is TDC or slightly before. I checked the correct spark plug wiring. It was running just fine until this morning. The distributor drive gear is secure. Looked down engine where distributor goes in and nothing is blocking. The distributor goes all the way in and rotor lines up with spark plug 1 at TDC.

Is the compression cycle when the top of piston is farthest from spark plug on it's way back up, or when top of piston is closest to the spark plug on its way down? I switched rotor between 0 and 180 degrees several times.

I've rotated the distributor one way and the other and in between.

Twice it fired right up but then died before I could get out of the driver's seat and in front of the engine bay to dicker with this/that to keep it running.

There is plenty of gas in the tank. And when I throttle the push bar, gas shoots into the barrel.

I checked electrical continuity between coil and distributor. I played around with different point gaps. Still nothing.

Just cranks and cranks and cranks but no start...

[surfmurf]

TDC happens TWICE in a 4 stroke cycle engine. At the top of the Compression Stroke and ALSO at the top of the Exhaust Stroke. If you remove the right/passenger Rocker Arm Cover and watch the #1 cylinder's 2 Valve Springs/Retainers, you can easily determine which valve is the Exhaust and which the Intake by looking at the Intake and Exhaust Manifolds. The Intake Valves align with the Intake port leading from the Carb to the Head and is also "labeled" with a raised #1 (as is 2 thru 8) cast onto the Manifold. The Exhaust aligns with the Exhaust Manifold's corresponding Exhaust Port. Rotate the crank by hand or with a Remote Starter Switch and watch the tops of the 2 front most (#1) valves. The right or furthest forward valve will depress on the Exhaust Stroke, then return to its upright (NOT depressed) position, followed immediately (very quickly) by the Intake Valve (2nd from the Front) as it depresses and then returns to its up position. With #1 Spark Plug removed you can SEE the #1 piston as it rises to its uppermost position (TDC). (Happens VERY quickly if cranking with Starter or a Remote Starter Switch.) When the Intake Valve deperesses/opens, the Piston is going down to pull in the Air/Gas charge. The next time the Piston rises and comes into view, it is [u]coming[/u] up to TDC on the Compression Stroke = just before the Plug fires. [It can be a bear to pinpoint TDC if using the Starter to rotate the Crank as this happens SO VERY quickly.] After the Intake Valve closes it is better to complete that stroke by [b]manually[/b] rotating the Crank with a Socket and Breaker Bar. This is also a lot easier if ALL the Plugs are removed = no resistance for each cylinder's Compression Stroke, but not required.) It also helps to clean the Timing , if yu can find the darn mark - OEM Manual says "Pin" but I have no Pin or groove, just a deep (?) scratch. Chalk or brightly paint (white or yellow) the Timing Mark on the Vibration Damper, if you can, lightly = very narrow, NOT WIDE. You want the Timing Mark on or very close to the EIGHT (8) = 8 degrees BEFORE Top Dead Center (BTDC) on the Timing Pointer. If you open the Distributor (remove the Distributor Cap), the Rotor should be VERY close to pointing at the point on the Cap where #1 Cylinder's Plug Wire comes out of the Distributor Cap and goes to #1 Plug. If it is, replace the Cap, the Rocker Arm Cover, the #1 (or all 8) Plug(s) and Plug Wire(s). Now you should be ready to start the engine and precisely set the Timing by repositioning the Distributor, if necessary. Rotating the Distributor Clockwise (CW) Advances the Spark = causes to Spark Plug to fire/ignite sooner, further BEFORE the Piston reaches TDC (BTDC), while CCW rotation of the Distributor Retards timing (makes when the Plug fires later/CLOSER to the Piston being right at TDC). 8 Degrees before TDC is the T-Bird recommendation. Use what makes your Birdie run the smoothest. If you experience any backfiring (igniting the unburnt Gas&O2, maybe up the Carb, you probably have the TDC set for the top of the Exhaust Stroke, not the Compression stroke, you are 180 degrees out. Repeat this procedure to correct this error. IF directions are unclear (or I mis-wrote), contact me or someone smarter than I. Murf










































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[Mheiron]

If it was running after the tune up and then decided to stop it sounds like a bad component or wire grounded or something weird.

If you had it running and then it stopped maybe its the coil, coil wire or something.

Once you get it running again, I'd ditch the points and go Petronix so you won't have to fool around with those anymore!

Hang in there you'll get it!

Good luck.

[stove]

Does it have spark?

[voltron]

Recently I have seen quite a few postings on several different forums of people having new condensers failing within a few miles of driving after installation. The common denominator seems to be they are made in China.

[stove]

This^^ Hence, my question.

[hemicharger69]

I did figure out why it wouldn't start. It was because timing was off by 180 degrees. This forum helped me identify the problem soon after I first posted.

[comrade]

Glad to hear the starting issue is solved. I agree with Mheiron, go with the Petronics, what a difference, it has paid for itself in ease of use, never mind the performance. You will never look back and say "I wish I hadn't done that."