1964 Thunderbird build

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crashchoate
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:01 pm

1964 Thunderbird build

Post by crashchoate »

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Well I decided to start modifying my bird. So I figured that i would just post a build thread of the plans and what i am modifying. Enjoy!

Here is one problem i had last time i drove the car.
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Started pulling the carb off to replace the intake and just clean everything up and paint it.
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Then I got the intake off
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I am going to do a cam swap and replace the intake with an Edelbrock Performer.

I also started taking off the brake booster to swap it out to hydro boost.
IMG_0656.JPG
I had already done the duel bowl conversion for the brakes but i really wasn't happy with it.
Going with the cam i decide to go with i thought that it wouldn't produce enough vacuum. So I'm going to run hydro boost and just run the accessories off the intake and that it should have more than enough vacuum to run everything. I am going to be disabling some of the things that I won't be using and will probably swap over to be electric. Like the door locks which will require me to get a better alternator. That and doing a EFI setup. Then the fun stuff should start after that.
64ZCODE
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:41 pm

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by 64ZCODE »

Hi there. I also have a '64 so am going to be following your build with considerable interest!

A couple of questions:

Will the hydroboost run off of the power steering pump?

Is the current duel diaphragm master brake cylinder plumbed into the stock drum brakes? How did you modify the brake lines to accept the new brake cylinder?

To put the new cam in, will you have to pull the engine? Or will you be able to do the cam swap by removing the radiator?

You didn't mention headers, is that part of the plan?

Doug
1964 TBird Hardtop
1969 Galaxie 500 Convertible
1990 Mustang 5.0 LX
1974 Porsche 914 2.0
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RedBird64
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Location: Bothell Wa.

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by RedBird64 »

You can replace the cam with just a radiator removal - eng still in car. BTDT!

I'm following with great intrest myself. I've been wondering if a hydroboost would fit.

Scott
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 42 years. It was my folks car before that (second owners). VTCI # 12013.
crashchoate
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:01 pm

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by crashchoate »

I’m waiting on the aluminum radiator to show up and I will be doing headers when I get to the point of doing the supercharger. I already have 2.5 exhaust done.
crashchoate
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:01 pm

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by crashchoate »

So far from what I can tell the hydroboost unit would come close to bolting up tothe old brackets. But I believe it is to big and won’t really save space. So I’m going to see about bolting it to the firewall.
64ZCODE
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:41 pm

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by 64ZCODE »

So is the concern that a new cam will reduce the manifold vacuum to the point where it won't be sufficient for the stock booster?
1964 TBird Hardtop
1969 Galaxie 500 Convertible
1990 Mustang 5.0 LX
1974 Porsche 914 2.0
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RedBird64
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Location: Bothell Wa.

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by RedBird64 »

64ZCODE wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:49 pm So is the concern that a new cam will reduce the manifold vacuum to the point where it won't be sufficient for the stock booster?
That can happen with a more radical cam and the lower compression needed for a super charger (if you go that route).
There are some great new vacuum pumps out there from the electric brake industry though. This one https://mpbrakes.com/accessories/ac9001 ... 2ae635d5b6 sounds like it does a great job.
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 42 years. It was my folks car before that (second owners). VTCI # 12013.
crashchoate
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:01 pm

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by crashchoate »

That is a cool vacuum pump but I couldn't justify spending that much unless it is a last resort. I really don't like the way that Ford designed the old booster. It is way to complicated and way to many parts that are subject to fail in my opinion. So I that is one reason why I am going to swap it out. One thing that really bothers me about the 64 Thunderbird is all the hoses running everywhere. So I am going to try and clean that up as much as possible. The plan is that I'm going to run as many hoses in the fender as I can. But who knows, they may all stay where they are.
64ZCODE
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Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:41 pm

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by 64ZCODE »

My '64 seems to have relatively few vacuum hoses. Maybe that's because I'm comparing it to an '84 honda prelude that had 10 yards of vacuum hoses running everywhere.

On my '64, there's just vacuum to 1) PCV valve, 2) to brake booster with tee to tranny vacuum modulator, 3) to passenger compartment for vacuum powered rear ventilation and e brake, and 4) to disty vacuum advance.

By the way, is that the 390 or 428 engine?
1964 TBird Hardtop
1969 Galaxie 500 Convertible
1990 Mustang 5.0 LX
1974 Porsche 914 2.0
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RedBird64
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:42 pm
Location: Bothell Wa.

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by RedBird64 »

64ZCODE wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:32 am My '64 seems to have relatively few vacuum hoses. Maybe that's because I'm comparing it to an '84 honda prelude that had 10 yards of vacuum hoses running everywhere.

On my '64, there's just vacuum to 1) PCV valve, 2) to brake booster with tee to tranny vacuum modulator, 3) to passenger compartment for vacuum powered rear ventilation and e brake, and 4) to disty vacuum advance.

By the way, is that the 390 or 428 engine?
Yeah, that's how mine is plumbed as well. There's really very few vacuum lines.
Now is one has AC the inside of the dash looks like a bowl of spaghetti.

We have a newer car (2015) and I was glad to see there isn't one single vacuum line on it!
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 42 years. It was my folks car before that (second owners). VTCI # 12013.
crashchoate
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:01 pm

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by crashchoate »

The vacuum lines don't bother me as much as the a/c lines and the power steering lines do. I hope to be able to change all that and go to a Sanden A/C compressor
64ZCODE
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:41 pm

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by 64ZCODE »

Yes, my car doesn't have A/C (never did) and it's not really needed where I live, although with a black car there have been some moments where I wished I had it.
1964 TBird Hardtop
1969 Galaxie 500 Convertible
1990 Mustang 5.0 LX
1974 Porsche 914 2.0
64ZCODE
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:41 pm

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by 64ZCODE »

I could use some input on what the next "incremental" modification is I should make to my '64 to boost engine performance. It has a bone stock 390 that has <50K miles and seems to be very tight.

Here's what I've done so far:
- 670 CFM Holley
- Free flow air filter/circular housing
- Pertronix ignition and coil, 8.8mm wires
- H pipe exhaust with Magnaflows

I've done plenty of other stuff related to suspension and brakes and that seems to have calmed down for now.

I'm actually pretty please with how smoothly it's running and the amount of power it as. I'm not interested in drag racing or blowing off the other guy, but I get off on throttle response like most guys do.

If I were to do the next incremental modification, which of the below would you guys prioritize?

1) intake manifold, like an Edelbrock Performer
2) cam shaft, and if so, which one?
3) headers, probably Sanderson headers

You could say "do all three" but I'll still start with one of them 'cause I'm a linear kind of a guy.

Thanks!

Doug
1964 TBird Hardtop
1969 Galaxie 500 Convertible
1990 Mustang 5.0 LX
1974 Porsche 914 2.0
User avatar
RedBird64
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:42 pm
Location: Bothell Wa.

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by RedBird64 »

The cam is a hard one for me too. I have the basic Edelbrock Performer but it falls flat on its face around 4000~4500 RPM's. I'd like to have something that pulls to around 5500 without losing bottom end and vacuum.
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 42 years. It was my folks car before that (second owners). VTCI # 12013.
64ZCODE
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:41 pm

Re: 1964 Thunderbird build

Post by 64ZCODE »

Isn't the 390 fundamentally a low rpm torquer? I've also read some posts indicating that over revving these motors can spin the main bearings.

Here's a question: how many rpms is the engine turning at 60 mph? Assume a cruise-o-matic tranny in high gear and stock rear end gearing?
1964 TBird Hardtop
1969 Galaxie 500 Convertible
1990 Mustang 5.0 LX
1974 Porsche 914 2.0
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