Looking to buy a supposed 63 Monaco, need advice

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Chuker34
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:03 am
Location: Oregon

Looking to buy a supposed 63 Monaco, need advice

Post by Chuker34 »

Hello, I'm new here and new to this style of car, but not classic cars. My first car I bought at 18 is my 1974 Super Beetle, a bit different from a Thunderbird, but it made a mechanic out of me. I've been interested in getting another old car to work on for fun as my Beetle is just about done after six years of on and off work. Driving around out of town I saw this Thunderbird for sale: https://imgur.com/a/8ULOOiF and instantly loved the look of it, it looks like a bigger first gen Falcon!

Now, as an aircooled guy I know NOTHING about this style of car, I've rarely worked on a newer car other than my 94 Jetta I had and I'm a bit intimidated but very interested. I've been reading these forums, watching videos and have been learning about these types of cars for a couple years now, so I'm not entirely blind to what I could be going into.

I'd like some advice on this one. It's supposedly a Monaco edition car, I didn't get a picture of the plaque (Number 734 or 749?) or the data plate (didn't know where it was), but from what I can tell it all checks out. The top looks to have been replaced or is sun bleached, but it's in good shape with no cracks so I assume it's a replacement.

Body wise the worst damage is the dent in the picture, the owner did tell me there's some quarter panel bondo and there is some surface rust and paint quite literally flaking off, but underneath is solid and I can't find any actual cancerous rust on the car. The interior is all there, just old. Everything works with the exception to the heater (The core leaks so the owner plugged it as shown), the clock and the radio. I didn't look for blown fuses, but I think both of those are genuinely in need of repair. I did feel the passenger side floor and it was slightly wet, the door weather stripping is just about ruined and I figure that's the cause.

While driving it nothing seemed wrong, the owner (who is a mechanic) said he redid the brakes and had new exhaust put on it as well as had the transmission resealed. Under the car nothing looks to be leaking, at least badly. The drivers side looked wet and he said he thinks its power steering from a old hose. He also said there is a vacuum leak, and that it does have a slightly hard time starting. He shot one small spray of starting fluid into the carb and in two short cranks it started and after a few seconds it idled without problem. The only engine bay thing that seems off other than the heater core hoses is the master cylinder cap was seemingly stuck on. I didn't notice any smoke, weird smells, nothing. The car has what I would assume is around 150,000 miles on it. The odometer to my memory says around 48,000 and an oil change sticker on the door from the 90's says 78,000

Not pictured is the wheel skirts, it has both sides in near perfect shape, nor is the air cleaner, which is in the trunk.

This car has almost no options, in fact I think the power drivers seat is THE only option. It has crank windows and no A/C as well as no sign of any other options I can note minus the Monaco trim. I kind of like that actually.

The only reason the owner is selling it is that he just moved, has too many cars and doesn't want to see this one just sit. Says he used to drive it to the bar for drinks and has had it for about four years, mainly sitting the last year or so. He told me he would take just about what I paid for my Beetle or maybe less, which isn't a lot at all.

I'm probably jumping in a bit too deep with this as my first V8 car, so I'd like a second opinion. I'm not looking for a show car, just a nice drivable car. Is there anything I've missed? Is there anything in these pictures or my descriptions that scream a huge red flag? I have two uncles who have about 80 years experience in the body/paint field combined so any of that stuff I could get their help with. I do also live very close to The Bird Nest in West Linn and my small town has about five different auto parts stores, so local parts and info is fairly easy.

Bonus Beetle picture for those interested Image

Thanks - Spencer
ICON 1956
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Re: Looking to buy a supposed 63 Monaco, need advice

Post by ICON 1956 »

Welcome to the forum, You will have your work cut out for you. But you seem the take on the challenge, Good for you. The data plate is located on the drivers side door under the left side pillar you can't miss it. When decoded this will tell you if it's a true Monaco. If you decide to buy the car you have to purchase the shop manual first. These cars are anything but a Volkswagen car .
Having your Uncles help you is a big plus along the fact your near the Bird Nest which is a great place to start asking questions about the car. They will answer your questions and even help with parts, The bird Nest is very reputable. Have your Uncles go to look at the car. Let them give their honest opinion on the car.
If you do decide to take on the car start slow gather the information you will need to further your search in obtaining more manuals like the:
1. Shop manual (get this first)
2. 1963 Wiring Manual MP 0037
3. 1963 Body Trim Sealant Assembly Manual AM 0054
These three should be the first for you to study .
Tp purchase these go to www.osborn-reproduction.com you can call 770-962-7556.
1956 Thunderbird Sage Green
1953 Ford Custom Liner Hot Rod With Flat 8 Motor with Henderson three 2 barrel Carbs
VTCI Member # 12309
Chuker34
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:03 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Looking to buy a supposed 63 Monaco, need advice

Post by Chuker34 »

ICON 1956 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:35 am Welcome to the forum, You will have your work cut out for you. But you seem the take on the challenge, Good for you. The data plate is located on the drivers side door under the left side pillar you can't miss it. When decoded this will tell you if it's a true Monaco. If you decide to buy the car you have to purchase the shop manual first. These cars are anything but a Volkswagen car .
Having your Uncles help you is a big plus along the fact your near the Bird Nest which is a great place to start asking questions about the car. They will answer your questions and even help with parts, The bird Nest is very reputable. Have your Uncles go to look at the car. Let them give their honest opinion on the car.
If you do decide to take on the car start slow gather the information you will need to further your search in obtaining more manuals like the:
1. Shop manual (get this first)
2. 1963 Wiring Manual MP 0037
3. 1963 Body Trim Sealant Assembly Manual AM 0054
These three should be the first for you to study .
Tp purchase these go to www.osborn-reproduction.com you can call 770-962-7556.
Thank you for the advice on books, there is a 62-63 shop book in the car that would come with it. It's always nice to hear that parts dealers are willing to help with more than just the sale of parts, I know a few VW shops and stores around here that have helped me out. At 24 I haven't been around cars like this much, but most of my hobbies are repairing old stuff in one form or another. Nothing like fixing a 100+ year old rifle and finally getting to use it. I hate seeing old things sit and die, especially pieces of history that you can use too!
ICON 1956
Posts: 2565
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:11 am
Location: USA
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Re: Looking to buy a supposed 63 Monaco, need advice

Post by ICON 1956 »

That's a good start read the manual that came with the car first.
1956 Thunderbird Sage Green
1953 Ford Custom Liner Hot Rod With Flat 8 Motor with Henderson three 2 barrel Carbs
VTCI Member # 12309
MN63Tbird
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Re: Looking to buy a supposed 63 Monaco, need advice

Post by MN63Tbird »

Nice Beetle! The Monaco looks like it is almost all there. FYI the fuse box is on the passengers side kick panel. The wet floor on passengers side could be due to the leaking heater. Its on the right side of the dash area at a height most cars would have a glove box. There is a tag on the carb that would indicate if it is from a 63 from the code embossed in it something like C3SF. The VIN on the drivers side door jam should match the VIN Stamped in the engine compartment. Its on the cowl area between the right brace and the cowl vents. I can see it etched in the picture of your engine compartment. I dont see a windshield washer bag and lines. The bag is mounted to the right inner fender behind the battery. Not sure if that was an option or std equipment. One unique option to the 63 was its hydraulic operated windshield wipers. Hopefully the unit is there in the cowl compartment. you can see it through the vents.

A couple thoughts from other cars I have purchased - put together a check list of all items to inspect so you don't forget anything and record condition. This also gives you a good idea of what you will need to repair or refinish later. Major exterior items like engine appearance, belts, hoses, battery, coil, carburetor, alternator, power steering pump, tires, glass, Paint, trim, skirts, bumpers, gas filler, gas tank, inner fender condition, floor panels etc. Fluid conditions- oil, brake fluid, power steering fluid and automatic transmission. Interior items like, seats, dash, trim, mirrors, head liner, fuse box, speedometer, temp gauge, steering wheel, carpet and finally Controls- Horn, Lights, turn signals, windshield wipers, door handles,vents, window cranks wing window locks. Glove box and glove box locks, Door locks and trunk locks. trunk light Glove box light, power seats. heating controls, clock radio etc.

There are probably many more but those are off the top of my head.

Good luck
MN63
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code
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Alan H. Tast
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Re: Looking to buy a supposed 63 Monaco, need advice

Post by Alan H. Tast »

After seeing the photos, I see nothing that indicates it's not a Monaco Landau. It has the white leather seats (which can be restored by someone skilled in doing it), and it looks like the vinyl top is missing or needs to be redyed/replaced to the dark reddish maroon color it originally was. That it doesn't have AC, along with no power windows, is an oddity and makes it somewhat rare compared to others. One of my best friends had a non-AC Monaco, and I loved that car - to this day I wish I knew what his estate did with it when he passed away in 2016. Please bring it back to original and don't muck it up.
Alan H. Tast, AIA
Technical Director/Past President,
Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
1963 Hardtop & 1963 Sports Roadster
WNC Bird
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Re: Looking to buy a supposed 63 Monaco, need advice

Post by WNC Bird »

As another opinion regarding water on the passenger side floor, I had the same issue. It wasn't the heater core. The car didn't have one as it was it was removed by a previous owner sometime in a past life. My issue was the seal around the fresh air intake vent had dried up and disintegrated. Rain enters the cowl area through the vented area between the hood and windshield. Water that runs down is supposed to exit through the cowl drain tubes on the firewall in the engine compartment. But if the seal leaks it doesn't drain out, it drains on the floor. "Luckily" that was my issue. A similar issue is the chamber below the cowl is rusted through. Neither are easy fixes. But fixing a seal is a lot easier than fixing rusted out sheet metal. If the rest of the car is good I wouldn't let it stop me.

Ken
1962 Corinthian white convertible
Past birds
1977 Town Landau
1978 t-top
Chuker34
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:03 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Looking to buy a supposed 63 Monaco, need advice

Post by Chuker34 »

MN63Tbird wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:39 pm I dont see a windshield washer bag and lines. The bag is mounted to the right inner fender behind the battery. Not sure if that was an option or std equipment. One unique option to the 63 was its hydraulic operated windshield wipers. Hopefully the unit is there in the cowl compartment. you can see it through the vents.
I noticed the lack of windshield washer fluid bag myself too, I'm not even sure it has the bracket or the holes drilled for it. This car looks to me that someone liked the trim package and wanted a thunderbird but either didn't have much money or didn't want most options. I prefer crank windows and have rarely had A/C in cars anyways, so I don't mind!

Wipers do work, only did a back and forth but they look like they work at good speeds, which is nice. My Beetle hasn't had wipers that worked well until last night when I replaced the wiper motor. Honestly one of the worst things I've done to the car, and I've done A LOT.

Thank you for the suggestions though! I'm writing these all down.
Chuker34
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:03 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Looking to buy a supposed 63 Monaco, need advice

Post by Chuker34 »

Alan H. Tast wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:04 pm After seeing the photos, I see nothing that indicates it's not a Monaco Landau. It has the white leather seats (which can be restored by someone skilled in doing it), and it looks like the vinyl top is missing or needs to be redyed/replaced to the dark reddish maroon color it originally was. That it doesn't have AC, along with no power windows, is an oddity and makes it somewhat rare compared to others. One of my best friends had a non-AC Monaco, and I loved that car - to this day I wish I knew what his estate did with it when he passed away in 2016. Please bring it back to original and don't muck it up.
That's my plans, I'm a stickler for originality. In my beetle I paid for a in the dealer install box AM/FM radio which I sent out to have the capacitors replaced and talked to the guy who does the repairs extensively about it. He said it was by far the nicest he's seen. I try my best to get NOS or OEM parts and make everything work how it should. It's a bit more expensive that way, but I like it.

The only options I'm willing to change are for reliability (electronic ignition is nice) and safety. Even then I try and make everything I do able to be reversed.
Chuker34
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:03 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Looking to buy a supposed 63 Monaco, need advice

Post by Chuker34 »

WNC Bird wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:02 pm As another opinion regarding water on the passenger side floor, I had the same issue. It wasn't the heater core. The car didn't have one as it was it was removed by a previous owner sometime in a past life. My issue was the seal around the fresh air intake vent had dried up and disintegrated. Rain enters the cowl area through the vented area between the hood and windshield. Water that runs down is supposed to exit through the cowl drain tubes on the firewall in the engine compartment. But if the seal leaks it doesn't drain out, it drains on the floor. "Luckily" that was my issue. A similar issue is the chamber below the cowl is rusted through. Neither are easy fixes. But fixing a seal is a lot easier than fixing rusted out sheet metal. If the rest of the car is good I wouldn't let it stop me.

Ken
Funnily enough this is what I'm dealing with on my Beetle right now, though it's from a cover plate to the fresh air box to the trunk. Cleared out the drain and a new seal and it's all good. I have small arms and hands so if it's a tight squeeze I'm able to get in there.
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