Correct size air filter

[RAVEN]

Let me throw a little hiccup in the discussion. A small increased filter height does not matter. The reason is the difference between a 64 canister and a 65/66 canister.
A 64 canister has a small lid opening roughly just over the outer diameter of the filter. A 65/66 can has a lid the size of the full diameter of the housing.
On a 64 the lid seals to the top of the filter, but does not seal to the canister, there is a small gap. With a 65/66 canister and lid have a seal on the outer ring making canister body a filter housing, along with a mild compression of the filter sealing surfaces.
With the filter installed in the canister on a 64 the filter is squeezed between the lid and the can. Free air entering around the lid is still outboard to the Air Cleaner filter and NO rubber seal exists to fill the gap.
A gap of up to 1/8 inch exists between the canister and the lid. WHY panic over that gap, it has nothing in the process of air filtration. But does allow additional air over the snorkel.

[Tbirdgul]

Raven, I believe you are correct that additional air flow through a gap in the lid probably would not be detrimental in any way. I bet you could even argue that more air flow is better for the engine. Do you happen to know what the original air filter dimensions from the factory were for 64? It doesn’t really matter for me as much since I’m not keeping mine 100% stock, but it would be good to know how far off I am. Thanks Tony

[Alan H. Tast]

Without going into all the details, there are differing sizes for filters for '64 (and even '65-'66) depending if the car has the Closed Emission System (CES) with a non-vented oil filler cap and rubber hose that connected the oil filler cap to the front of the air cleaner housing. Be aware, though, Tbirdgul, that the pictures of your air cleaner do NOT represent the factory Closed Emissions System as your air cleaner has an aftermarket fitting screwed into the side of the air cleaner and an aftermarket oil filler cap, not the OEM CES housing with a hose nipple that's welded to the front of the air cleaner housing.

Air cleaner filter basic part number is 9601; the air cleaner housing basic part number is 9600. Part numbers and dimensions listed below are from the 1968 Ford Car Master Parts Catalog (MPC), Section 96, pg 8, Revised Apr '68, Change #32 - applications for non-T-birds can be seen in the screen clip.

'64 S (ex. CES) - C3AZ 9601-B - 9.78" O.D. - 7.29" I.D. x 2.53" H - '64 - Use w/ C3AZ 9600-F,K; C4AZ 9600-N,R; C4SZ 9600-D (no hose nipple)
'64 S w/ CES - C4AZ 9601-A - Polyurethane, 8.42" O.D. x 3.81" H - Use w/ C4SZ 9600-E,G (w/ hose nipple); replaced by C3AZ 9601-B
'65-'66 S (ex. CES) - C5ZZ 9601-B - 10.04" O.D./7.50" I.D. x 2.38" H - '65-'66 - use w/ C5SZ 9600-B; C5AZ 9600-AH; C6AZ 9600-E,G; C3AZ 9600-N,P (no hose nipple)
'65-'66 S w/ CES - C5ZZ 9601-A - Polyurethane, 9.65" O.D. x 2.70" H - Use w/ C5SZ 9600-A, C6AZ 9600-G (w/ hose nipple)

60-68 MPC Section 96, pg. 8 - Air Filter Elements

[RAVEN]

Alan, I fully agree with your comment on Tbirdgul's filter canister bolt on hose fitting. That being a screw on part, vs a welded hose nipple. But here is the ringer. I have seen this same "fitting" on other Bird Air Filter Canisters. And placed on the canister where ever the installer seemed to want. I have seen this fitting at 06:00, at 07:00, at 0:500, and approaching 04:00, clock orientations. I question whether this fitting along with a different sealed oil fill cap, was a retro fit/factory recall type of unit.
I have seen this set-up, and in a small way questioned this application, but never worried about it. There are other things to worry about. What works, works. If you wish to go down that rabbit hole, go ahead, but just a thought, and look to other members for their comment.

At this point, it then needs to have its own post, as it is starting to hack the original filter question.
BTW My air filter is a FRAM #CA-149 And is 2.50 inches tall +/- a hair, in both my Cali convert, and CDN Landau. May not be a 100% correct but works!

[RAVEN]

Also Alan, and for clarity, you may have had a finger stroke, as you listed a 64S w/CES at a height of 3.81"

W

[Alan H. Tast]

Also Alan, and for clarity, you may have had a finger stroke, as you listed a 64S w/CES at a height of 3.81"

W

Not a typo in my part - read the attachment and the sizes it gives. I wanted to show what Ford listed in their master parts catalog. That isn't to say one or more Quick Parts Reference Catalogs from the period don't have a different set of dimensions. More digging needed - rabbits are creating more holes to go down

[Scott6T6]

Good information to have posted here Alan. I would NOT have thought the CES (closed emissions system) air filters were smaller in size than the non CES filter. Never had reason to investigate it, but I would have guessed they were all uniform in size.

Once again this makes me want to finally break down and purchase a Ford MPC! Something I've passed on for decades due to the high cost of the originals.
Scott

[Alan H. Tast]

I'll have information from Ford's Quick/Ready Reference catalogs from '64-'67, and possibly additional ones with Autolite/Motorcraft numbers and descriptions, later today or this evening as time permits. A quick run-through of the early '70s Autolite/Motorcraft catalogs I have didn't immediately yield pages for the air filters, which weren't listed in the Table of Contents/Index pages. In the mean time I'm digging, but just remember folks - I work for a living, and this isn't what I do for a living.

[RAVEN]

Alan, by having the largest information library, the most detailed mind and a love of the Bird, plus an understanding wife, puts you in a position to be pestered by many.
No matter if it takes more than 5 minutes, we will wait

[Alan H. Tast]

Well, for starters, it appears even at Ford Motor Company, the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing in the case of coordinating information on air filters. In going through annual releases of the Quick Reference/Ready Reference Catalogs for Fast-Moving Parts and Accessories from 1964-1967 (Forms FD 7514-64, FD 7514-65, FD-7514-66 and AF 7514-67), here's what was listed:

1964 - Form FD 7514, p. 319 - Air Cleaner Elements:
1958-'60 T-bird (352-430) - 10.39" top O.D./9.78" bottom O.D. - 7.28" I.D. - 2.25" H. - C3VY 9601-A (a '63 Lincoln number)
1961-'63 T-bird (390) - 13.14" top O.D./12.50" bottom O.D. - 10.73" I.D. - 2.18"H. - C0AE 9601-B.
- No specific listing was made for the '63 T-bird (it apparently was lumped together with all full-size engines/air cleaners), while '61-'62 was identified separately. No listing for the '62-'63 "M"-Series 3-2v carb setup's air filter.
1964 T-bird (390) - (no inside diameter (I.D.)) - (no outside diameter (O.D.)) - 2.56" H - C3AZ 9601-B
- No mention made if car had Closed Emissions System; listed with 63-64 Galaxie w/ 352-390.

FD 7514-64 p 319

1965 - Form FD 7514-65, pgs. 309-310:
1958-'60 T-bird (352-430) - 10.39" top O.D./9.78" bottom O.D. - 7.28" I.D. - 2.25" H. - C3VY 9601-A (a '63 Lincoln number)
1961-'63 T-bird (390) - 13.14" top O.D./12.50" bottom O.D. - 10.73" I.D. - 2.18"H. - C0AE 9601-B.
- Again, no specific listing was made for the '63 T-bird (it apparently was lumped together with all full-size engines/air cleaners), while '61-'62 was identified separately. And, again, no listing for the '62-'63 "M"-Series 3-2v carb setup's air filter.
1964 T-bird (390) - (no inside diameter (I.D.)) - (no outside diameter (O.D.)) - 2.56" H - C3AZ 9601-B
- No mention made if car had Closed Emissions System. Listed with 63-64 Galaxie w/ 352-390.
1965 All Passenger (including Ford 352 & Ford & T-bird 390 with Closed Emission System) - 9.65" I.D. - (no outside diameter (O.D.)) - 2.70" H - C5ZZ 9601-A
1965 Ford & T-bird 390 (w/o Closed Emission System) - 10.04" I.D., 7.50" O.D., 2.38" H - C5ZZ 9601-B
1964 352-390 (w/ Closed Emission System) - (no inside diameter (I.D.)) - 9.74" O.D. - 3.13" H - C4AZ 9601-A
- The '64 w/CES was not identified as specific to the T-bird, but with the 352-390 designation it was lumped together with the Ford 352-390 and full-size Mercury 390 engines.

FD 7514-65 p 309

FD 7514-65 p 310

1966 - Form FD 7514-66, pgs. 291-292:
1958-'60 T-bird (352-430) - 10.39" top O.D./9.78" bottom O.D. - 7.28" I.D. - 2.25" H. - C3VY 9601-A (a '63 Lincoln number)
1961-'63 T-bird (390) - 13.14" top O.D./12.50" bottom O.D. - 10.73" I.D. - 2.18"H. - C0AE 9601-B.
- Again, no specific listing was made for the '63 T-bird (it apparently was lumped together with all full-size engines/air cleaners), while '61-'62 was identified separately. And, again, no listing for the '62-'63 "M"-Series 3-2v carb setup's air filter.
1964 T-bird (390) - (no inside diameter (I.D.)) - (no outside diameter (O.D.)) - 2.56" H - C3AZ 9601-B
- No mention made if car had Closed Emissions System; listed with 63-64 Galaxie w/ 352-390.
1965-66 All Passenger (including Ford 352, Ford & Fairlane 390, Ford & T-bird 390-428 with Closed Emission System) - 9.65" I.D. - (no outside diameter (O.D.)) - 2.70" H - C5ZZ 9601-A
1965-66 Ford 352-390-428, Fairlane 390 & T-bird 390-428 (w/o Closed Emission System) - 10.04" I.D., 7.50" O.D., 2.38" H - C5ZZ 9601-B
1964 352-390 (w/ Closed Emission System) - (no inside diameter (I.D.)) - 9.74" O.D. - 3.13" H - C4AZ 9601-A
- The '64 w/CES was not identified as specific to the T-bird, but with the 352-390 designation it was lumped together with the Ford 352-390 and full-size Mercury 390 engines.

FD 7514-66 Pg 291

FD 7514-66 Pg 292

1967 - Form AF 7514-67, pgs. 331-332:
1958-'60 T-bird (352-430) - 10.39" top O.D./9.78" bottom O.D. - 7.28" I.D. - 2.25" H. - C3VY 9601-A (a '63 Lincoln number)
1961-'63 T-bird (390) - 13.14" top O.D./12.50" bottom O.D. - 10.73" I.D. - 2.18"H. - C0AE 9601-B.
- Again, no specific listing was made for the '63 T-bird (it apparently was lumped together with all full-size engines/air cleaners), while '61-'62 was identified separately. And, again, no listing for the '62-'63 "M"-Series 3-2v carb setup's air filter.
1964 T-bird (390) - (no inside diameter (I.D.)) - 9.75" O.D.* - 2.56" H - C3AZ 9601-B
- No mention made if car had Closed Emissions System; listed with 63-64 Galaxie w/ 352-390. *O.D. added this issue
1965-66 All Passenger (including Ford 352, Ford & Fairlane 390, Ford & T-bird 390-428 with Closed Emission System) - 9.65" I.D. - (no outside diameter (O.D.)) - 2.70" H - C5ZZ 9601-A
1965-66 Ford 352-390-428, Fairlane 390 & T-bird 390-428 (w/o Closed Emission System) - 10.04" I.D., 7.50" O.D., 2.38" H - C5ZZ 9601-B
1964 352-390 (w/ Closed Emission System) - (no inside diameter (I.D.)) - 9.74" O.D. - 3.13" H - C4AZ 9601-A
- The '64 w/CES was not identified as specific to the T-bird, but with the 352-390 designation it was lumped together with the Ford 352-390 and full-size Mercury 390 engines.
1967 T-bird 390, 427, 428 - 11.32" I.D. - 13.30" O.D. - 2.22" H - C7SZ 9601-A
- No distinction made between CES/non-CES systems. No idea why the 427 is included in the listing as it wasn't supposedly offered in the 'Bird.

AF 7514-67 p 331

AF 7514-67 p 332

So, it looks like a person needs to be able to go back and forth between several catalogs to try and find a 'right' answer for their year/model/engine/emission setup. I still have to dig through early-mid '70s Autolite/Motorcraft books to see if they have listings for air filters - that's my next step.

[RAVEN]

Well Tbirdgul, it would seem you have your answer, or its close. Is this FORUM grand or not!?
Welcome to the VTCI help desk. If you are not a member, please sign up and support the team who brings you these great info items.

[Scott6T6]

A friend of mine has this NOS C3AZ-9601-B (FA-6) FoMoCo air filter. Factory correct for a '64 Thunderbird.
According to the information Alan provided from the '68 Ford Master Parts Catalog, this is proper for the 1964 Thunderbird standard air cleaner - OPEN EMISSIONS.
I asked my friend what the dimensions were, but as of yet he has not responded. However, we now have that information thanks to Alan.
9.78" O.D. 7.29" I.D. 2.58" H.
A very rare original filter to be sure.
By the way, it is for sale. If anyone is interested you can PM me.

Scott

[Alan H. Tast]

A friend of mine has this NOS C3AZ-9601-B (FA-6) FoMoCo air filter. Factory correct for a '64 Thunderbird.
According to the information Alan provided from the '68 Ford Master Parts Catalog, this is proper for the 1964 Thunderbird standard air cleaner - OPEN EMISSIONS.
I asked my friend what the dimensions were, but as of yet he has not responded. However, we now have that information thanks to Alan.
9.78" O.D. 7.29" I.D. 2.58" H.
A very rare original filter to be sure.
By the way, it is for sale. If anyone is interested you can PM me.

Scott

One of the things I'm learning right now is that the Autolite 'quick reference' numbers (i.e. (FA-6)) started to show up in conjunction with the Ford P&A part numbers in MPCs starting around 1969. In going through the Autolite Ready Reference Catalogs from '70-'71-'72 I'm finding the quick-reference numbers but not Ford's part numbers, nor descriptions with sizes. For those I have to go to the MPCs including the '60-'64 'Blue Bible' (issued 1969) and '65-'72 MPC-Final Issue from 1975. Crossing the quick-reference and Ford part numbers should help to ID the filters and sizes.

For instance, here's a listing of the Autolite quick-reference numbers for T-bird air cleaner elements from the 1970 Ready Reference Catalog, AF 7514-70, pg 118. Note that no dimensional information, nor Ford engineering/P&A part numbers, were provided in these catalogs:

1960 - 352, 430 - FA-4
1961-63 - 390 - FA-5 (4-barrel version, no listing for "M"-series)
1964 - 390 - FA-6
1965 - 390 - FA-23
1966 - 390, 428 - FA-23 (California models w/ PCV use FA-1)
1967 - 390, 428 - FA-41 (Carb. air filter - for T/E air pump use FA-42)
1968 - 390 - FA-41
1968-70 - 429 - FA-50

The 1971 and 1972 versions of the Ready Reference Catalog dropped year listings for filters when they reached 10-years old; for instance, in the '71 version AF 7514-71, pg 172-173, '60 and '61 listings dropped out, and in the '72 version AF 7514-72, pg 187, the oldest 'Bird filter listed is for 1963. Descriptions were the same as for the '70 catalog, with exception of the '68-'72 429 which kept using the FA-50 filter.

The 1968 Ford Car MPC, Section 96, pgs. 7-9, Change #32 - Revised April 1968 had the following listings for T-birds. At that time, no Autolite Quick-Reference numbers were shown in the MPC for air filters on page 593:

60 - S - 352, 430 - 7.28" ID - 9.78" O.D. bottom - 13.14" O.D. top 2.09" high - C3VY 9601-A (this would also be listed as the FA-4 filter)
61/63 - S - All (390-4v) - 10.73" ID - 12.50" O.D. bottom - 13.14" O.D. top - 2.09" high - used with C1AE 9600-A, C1SE 9600-A, C3AZ 9600-E, C3SZ 9600-A cleaner - C0AE 9601-B (this would later include the FA-5 listing)
62/63 S Special (6/B carb) - 390 - Use with C2SZ 9600-A cleaner - EDJ 9601-A (no dimensions given - this number was originally used in 1956-57 for the oval dual-4v air cleaner)
64 - S - 390 - 7.28" I.D. - 9.78" O.D. - 2.53" high - used with C3AZ 9600-F,K, C4AZ 9600-N,R, C4SZ 9600-D - C3AZ 9601-B (this would be the FA-6 listing)
65 - S (with closed emission system) - 352, 390 - Polyurethane - 9.65" O.D. - 2.70" high - use with C5SZ 9600-A, C6AZ 9600-G - C5ZZ 9601-A (this would be FA-1?)
66 - S (with closed emission system) - 390, 428 - Polyurethane - 9.65" O.D. - 2.70" high - use with C5SZ 9600-A, C6AZ 9600-G - C5ZZ 9601-A (this would be FA-1?)
65 - S (except with closed emission system) - 390 - 10.04" O.D. - 7.50" I.D. - 2.38" thick - used with C5SZ 9600-B, C6AZ 9600-E,G, C3AZ 9600-N,P - C5ZZ 9601-B (this would be FA-23)
64 - S (with closed emission system) - 390 - Polyurethane - 9.74" O.D. - 3.13" high-used with C4AZ 9600-T,U, C4SZ 9600-E,G - replaced by C3AZ 9601-B (6-67) - C4AZ 9601-A (need quick-reference #)
67 - S - 390, 428 - 13.30" O.D. - 11.32" I.D. - 2.22" high - Used with C7SZ 9600-A - B7SZ 9601-A (this would be FA-41)
68 - S - 390, 429 - 11.32" I.D. - 13.30" O.D. - 2.80" high - used with C8AZ 9600-A, C8OZ 9600-A,B & C8SZ 9600-B, C8SZ 9600-A - C8AZ 9601-A (need to confirm if FA-41 or FA-50).

The 1960-64 Ford Car Parts & Accessories Catalog, i.e. the "Blue Bible," printed in 1969, had listings for respective filters with both Ford P&A and Autolite quick-reference numbers as follows for '60-'64 T-birds:

60 - S - 352,430 - 7.28" I.D. - 9.78" O.D. bottom - 10.39" O.D. top - 2.14" high - C3VY 9601-A (FA-4)
61-63 - S - All - 10.73" I.D. - 12.50" O.D. bottom - 13.15" O.D. top- 2.09" high - used with C1AE 9600-A, C1SE 9600-A, C3AZ 9600-E, C3SZ 9600-A cleaner - C0AE 9601-B (FA-5) (note this is for 390-4v 'Z'-code engine and was also used on '60 full-size 292-352 except for the HiPo open element version)
62-63 - S Special (6/B carb.) - 390 - Use with C2SZ 9600-A cleaner - EDJ 9601-A (FA-48) (note no dimensions given)
64 - S - 390 - 7.28" I.d. - 9.78" O.D. - 2.53" high - used with C3AZ 9600-F,K, C4AZ 9600-N,R,T,U, C4SZ 9600-D,E,G - C3AZ 9601-B (FA-6) (note no distinction made as to whether it is open emission or closed emission version)

Air Filters - From the 1960-1964 "Blue Bible" pg 593

It's interesting to note that there is no reference to the 'oddball' filter used with the Closed Emission System for '64. From this, it's no wonder that parts people who solely rely on the '60-'64 "Blue Bible" get this wrong since Ford apparently dropped listings of these filters from their inventory and parts catalogs prior to the "Blue Bible" printing, which culled many 'obsolete' numbers from their Master Parts Catalog.

Fast-forward to the 1965-1972 Ford Car MPC-Final Issue May 1975, Section 96, pgs 9-10, with listings include both the Ford P&A number and (now) Motorcraft quick-reference numbers as follows (note that I have omitted non-T-bird air cleaner assemblies/applications in order to limit focus to just T-birds):

(on page 9)
68 - S - 390 - 11.32" I.D. - 13.30" O.D. - 2.80" high - use with C8SZ 9600-A,B - C8AZ 9601-A (FA-50)
68 - S - 390, 429 - 11.32" I.D. - 13.30" O.D. - 2.80" high - use with D2SZ 9600-A - C8AZ 9601-A (FA-50)
69/ - S - 429 - 11.32" I.D. - 13.30" O.D. - 2.80" high - use with C8SZ 9600-A,B, D0VY 9600-A, D1VY 9600-A, D2SZ 9600-A - C8AZ 9601-A (FA-50)
72 - S - 400 - 11.32" I.D. - 13.30" O.D. - 2.80" high - use with D2SZ 9600-A - C8AZ 9601-A (FA-50)

Air Filters - 1965-72 MPC Section 96-pg 9

It's interesting to note that T-bird listings for '71 include 351C (Cleveland) and 71/ 400, both of which were not used in the T-bird.

(on page 10)
65 - S - 390 - 10.04" O.D. - 7.50" I.D. - 2.38" thick - used with C5SZ 9600-B, C6AZ 9600-E,G, C3AZ 9600-N,P - C5ZZ 9601-B (FA-23)
66 - S - 390, 428 - 10.04" O.D. - 7.50" I.D. - 2.38" thick - used with C5SZ 9600-AB, C6AZ 9600-E,G - C5ZZ 9601-B (FA-23)
67 - S - 390, 428 - 13.30" O.D. - 11.32" I.D. - 2.22" high - Used with C7SZ 9600-A - B7SZ 9601-A (FA-41)

Air Filters - 1965-72 MPC Section 96-p 10

Listings for 64-66 with Closed Emissions System air filters were dropped from the inventory by the printing of the '65-'72 MPC-Final Issue as they were not shown.

For the record, here's the remainder of the air filter listings from the '65-'72 MPC on page 11

Air Filters - 1965-72 MPC Section 96-p 11

The MPC listings do have applications for other Ford car lines/engines/air cleaner assemblies, but it's not worth my time right now to list all permutations involved. The above should help in determining what currently-available filters may be close dimension-wise.

Q.E.D.

[Alan H. Tast]

For those who are interested, information has been revised in previous posts to add the '60-'64 "Blue Bible" filter listings and copies of portions of the '60-'64 and '65-'72 Master Parts Catalogs related to air filters. Please refer to these for updated information.

[Tbirdgul]

Well Tbirdgul, it would seem you have your answer, or its close. Is this FORUM grand or not!?
Welcome to the VTCI help desk. If you are not a member, please sign up and support the team who brings you these great info items.

This forum is spectacular. Already a member and worth every penny. I’m glad I asked the question, but I’m guessing Alan lost a couple hours of sleep to document this. Thanks to you all. Tony