61' CONVERTIBLE TOP PROBLEMS

[62roadster]

Friend of mine and I have convertibles, ’61 and ’62 respectively. Don’t know what he did but he was lowering the top and somehow the flip panel didn’t close under the trunk lid and the trunk lid came down and he was able to stop it just short of hitting the back window with the flip panel still extended. Now the top is still up and when the switch is pushed down to lower the top, the trunk lid is still coming down toward the rear plastic window and now pushing the switch up, has not effect; doesn’t move anything. We don’t know why when he first pushed the switch to put the top down, the flip panel did not retract/ fold under; now it’s a real mess; Anyone have any idea as to get the trunk lid to raise?

[ICON 1956]

Contact Jim Wulf, He's a member on this forum. He's the expert that has own and worked on several 62-63 convertible Thunderbirds..... Calling Doctor Wulf !

[Cliff Rankin]

I would pull out the shop manual , assuming the relay
Set up is still factory. Make the jumper to by pass the
Relay to rase the trunk lid back to 90 degrees. Then look
At the flipper lid issue. It may start working again after back in sequence. But I would check the limit switch’s
Anyway. The car is 60 years old and relays can hic up and
Stick after sitting idle for top down weather. My 63 top is
Pretty reliable , but I don’t get the 64 out as often as I
Should and it sometimes gives me issues.
My thoughts
Cliff

[62roadster]

Cliff, thanks for your suggestion. The car has modern day relays, which seem to be reliable but can't reach them since the trunk lid is only about 12" from completely closed and with spare tire there, it is impossible. The car has a tonneau and it can't be removed with the top up but can probably move it forward maybe 18" but that wouldn't be enough room to remove rear seats and then try to operate the relays through that opening into the trunk. In the mean time I guess I will have to go the route of removing the bolts near the back bumper to release the cylinders from the floor and then I should be able to raise the lid to find out what's going on,,,thanks again

[Cliff Rankin]

Seems to me , and I’m just going off memory you and an assistant can pull the trunk back to a 90. Kind of overpowering the hydraulics. It’s been a while. I would
Use a wooden pole for a safety after doing that. Funny
You said the car has the modern relay set up. So does my
64. After having both for years , I’ll take the original set
Up any day. Please post your out come on the issues.
Cliff

[Jim Wulf]

Friend of mine and I have convertibles, ’61 and ’62 respectively. Don’t know what he did but he was lowering the top and somehow the flip panel didn’t close under the trunk lid and the trunk lid came down and he was able to stop it just short of hitting the back window with the flip panel still extended. Now the top is still up and when the switch is pushed down to lower the top, the trunk lid is still coming down toward the rear plastic window and now pushing the switch up, has not effect; doesn’t move anything. We don’t know why when he first pushed the switch to put the top down, the flip panel did not retract/ fold under; now it’s a real mess; Anyone have any idea as to get the trunk lid to raise?

Rich,

Cliff's suggestion to jump the relay is correct and is the only way to raise the deck lid easily without unbolting the bottom of the deck cylinder brackets under the car. You will not, I repeat not, be able to work against hydraulic pressure to push the lid up manually. Even if you were to place a jack under the lid it wouldn't work. The lid would bend in half before the hydraulics would give - hydraulic fluid just does not compress, period.

You actually can remove the tonneau cover to access the relays with the top in the "UP" position. It's really pretty easy, I've done it many times so it must be true! You would ideally have two people available for this procedure. Simply unlatch the the top at both sides from the front header, and push up on the front of the top frame - the header - on both left and right sides. There's quite a bit of mechanical give in the frame mechanism (you won't be working against hydraulics) and you'll be able to push it up a few inches. That will be enough to raise the top arm off the front of the rear quarter at least an inch or so. Place a thick wadded up bath towel under each side of the header, keeping it suspended above the top of the windshield frame and thus keeping the top arm off of the quarter.

Now open the the passenger door and move the passenger seat all the way forward, and flip the seat back forward. Unclip the tonneau cover at the footman's loop, and reach in the back and remove the two tonneau retaining wing nuts on each side. Now, from the passenger side with the door open, lift and work the tonneau sideways through the gap you've created between the quarter and the top arm. It's not much room, but it's enough to slide the rear of the tonneau through. You'll need to do a little bit of twisting, turning, and tilting of the tonneau cover, but it will eventually come out. All told it won't take more than 10 minutes.

Now you can pull the back seat out; unclip and remove the bottom first. Then remove the four screws at the bottom of the seat back, and push down to remove it from the retaining clips. After removing the seat, you'll have full access to the relay banks. Locate the deck up relay, use your jumper, and raise the lid. If you need to fabricate a jumper, be sure to use at least 10 gauge wire. There's lots of amps being pushed through that top wiring and anything less than 10 gauge is simply inadequate to handle it. After the deck is up again, you can jump the appropriate relays to get everything back in sequence. If you don't have the shop manual '63 supplement that explains the relay jumping procedure, I can post it here.

[GeoffInCarlsbad]

Mr Wulf's actions are spot on. Remove the back seat to get to the relays, build a 8 or 10 gauge wire jumper as outlined in the manual and go from relay to relay (check the manual for which does what function), and you'll be able to get your top up or down. then it's a matter of doing some 12v diagnosis to isolate the issue. Be careful because the power bars holding the relays is ALWAYS CHARGED. I use an 8 gauge jumper wire.

I have an issue where the whole mechanism sometimes will just quit. Don't know why. I will jumper everything to get back to retract or erects, and the top will work great for 4-6 cycles. then, in the middle of an action, it will just quit. I don't know exactly what it is, as I have check the continuity and lines all the way from the connections at the battery/starter solinoid, to the neutral switch, to the switch, to the relays. I cannot find any points of failure. So maybe it's the pump itself. inside there is a tiny circuit breaker that I guess when it get hot, just melts away. It resets but since already hot, it fails often. I think I am going to solder it together and hope the pump doesn't burn out. I have heard this works pretty well.

Anyway, it's a process of elimination, and not rocket science...the manual is a big help.