Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

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Marquette88
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Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by Marquette88 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:41 pm

My car started fine, but I wanted to clean out the gas tank as it had been sitting for a while. I took the tank out, but had it sitting for about a week before I could clean it. I cleaned it out fine, but when I put everything back together, it no longer started. Fuel is just not being transported thru the lines. I put fuel directly into the fuel pump, but when I tried to start it, it didnt even try to take the fuel, if that makes sense. Is it just the fuel sending unit that's the problem, did I do something wrong, or is it something bigger.
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Sending unit
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Fuel pump

ICON 1961
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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by ICON 1961 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:55 pm

There might be air trapped in the fuel line, before putting everything back did you bleed the fuel line?
1956 Thunderbird Sage Green
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Karl
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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by Karl » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:32 pm

G'day.
I am not sure weather you have to bleed the fuel line, the fuel pump should lift the fuel from a lower level to a upper level.
Here are some thoughts:-

If you didn't tighten up any flared union joins in the fuel line tight enough. This will suck air
if you have a blockage. This will suck air
If the rubber fuel line joining two metal fuel lines is not sealing properly. This will suck air
If you squashed any fuel line when re-installing the tank.
It won't take much to bock a fuel line.
You may off even dislodged some dirt and it has blocked the valves in the fuel pump.
You have the lines on the fuel pump the correct way around?

Take the fuel line of the suction side of the pump, and connect another pipe to the pump, place some clear plastic hose over this and put the other end in a bucket of fuel. You will be able to see if it sucks up the fuel. If this works, you then know that the pump is OK and you can work your way back to the tank and check all the other connections.
If it doesn't then the pump is your problem

In your photo, what is the wires going to your pump? Looks like a electric choke? Is this a aftermarket electric pump? If so is there current going to the pump?
Karl
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop

Marquette88
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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by Marquette88 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:50 pm

Karl wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:32 pm
G'day.
I am not sure weather you have to bleed the fuel line, the fuel pump should lift the fuel from a lower level to a upper level.
Here are some thoughts:-

If you didn't tighten up any flared union joins in the fuel line tight enough. This will suck air
if you have a blockage. This will suck air
If the rubber fuel line joining two metal fuel lines is not sealing properly. This will suck air
If you squashed any fuel line when re-installing the tank.
It won't take much to bock a fuel line.
You may off even dislodged some dirt and it has blocked the valves in the fuel pump.
You have the lines on the fuel pump the correct way around?

Take the fuel line of the suction side of the pump, and connect another pipe to the pump, place some clear plastic hose over this and put the other end in a bucket of fuel. You will be able to see if it sucks up the fuel. If this works, you then know that the pump is OK and you can work your way back to the tank and check all the other connections.
If it doesn't then the pump is your problem

In your photo, what is the wires going to your pump? Looks like a electric choke? Is this a aftermarket electric pump? If so is there current going to the pump?
Karl


about the fuel line, it was routed thru the wrong way on the gas tank, then when I realized that was wrong I fixed. That may have squashed the hose. I'll send some pictures as soon as I'm home.

Regarding the pump/choke, they are both aftermarket. Going off of memory, there arent any wires going to the pump, the wires u see are from the carb do distributor or starter cant remember.

I will send a video of me trying to start the car as well if that helps

Marquette88
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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by Marquette88 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:32 pm

More pictures of the fuel pump/filter and general area. Picture of the only fuel line I touched that was near the gas tank. Tried to upload video of me trying to start the car, but it said invalid file extension. If anybody knows what to do bout that let me know. Basically It's like the car isnt even trying to start. Wasnt able to get it on video, but when I tried starting earlier, solenoid started making noise. Not sure if it's supposed to, maybe its just been covered up by the other sounds of the engine being started. Feeling frustrated and confused, please help!
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Karl
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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by Karl » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:07 am

I have a 63 car and I am sure yours is the same.

I too have a rubber fuel line that goes to the top of the fuel tank and then to a metal line on the frame. This rubber fuel line runs between the tank and the trunk floor . There is not much room to route the hose over the tank. If you dropped your tank and then pushed the tank up and secured it quite likely you have squashed the hose between the tank and the floor of the trunk.

Like I said earlier, connect a clear hose to the inlet side of your fuel pump. Then place the other end in a bucket or tin of fuel. Crank the engine and you will see the fuel run up the hose. If not there is something wrong with your pump.
As far as the other photo's of your carb, I know nothing of these as they are not the original.

With regards to the noise in your solenoid, I believe they are not really designed for long periods of cranking. By trying to start your engine this may of placed additional stress on the solenoid, and with it's age is now making more noise and could fail. If you let it cool down it may be OK.
Karl.
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop

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Mheiron
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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by Mheiron » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:19 am

I would assume you have air in the line.

Also check that you didn’t pinch the hose coming from the tank to the hardline in the back.

Have you disconnected the fuel line at the carb and verified you’re not getting gas to the carb?

If no fuel to the carb, I’d be tempted to rig up a vacuum pump or brake bleeder suction gun and get a at least a pint of clean gas from the tank to the fuel hose going into the fuel pump. If the gas flows freely from the tank to the fuel pump and it still won’t pump to the carb I’d start suspecting the fuel pump is bad.

Hope something here is helpful. Don’t get to frustrated, working on cars and figuring it out is part of the fun. You’ll get it!

Everybody has mechanical war stories with these cars.
Mark H.
Current bird nest:
1961 Restored Chestnut Convertible
1963 M-code Hard Top - Being restored
1995 White T-bird Super Coupe - Fun Toy

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Mheiron
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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by Mheiron » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:24 am

Good news about starters is they are cheap and straight forward to replace.

Definetly not the worse thing that can happen.
Mark H.
Current bird nest:
1961 Restored Chestnut Convertible
1963 M-code Hard Top - Being restored
1995 White T-bird Super Coupe - Fun Toy

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Alan H. Tast
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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by Alan H. Tast » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:38 am

There are three lengths of rubber hose in between the fuel tank and the fuel pump:
1. From the pickup/sender unit to the steel line on the body;
2. In-line in front of the left/driver's side floorboard (you have to remove the front left side inner fender panel to get to it);
3. From the line attached to the subframe rail to the fuel pump.

If you haven't replaced the rubber line in the fender well, it well could be rotted out and allowing air to be drawn into the line - same with the body-to-pump line and, likewise, the sender unit to body line.

One thing overlooked on cars with steel lines (especially OEM/original ones) is that there is a place just forward of the rear wheel where the fuel and brake lines are protected with a stamped steel cover/guard. Dirt and moisture can collect here and eventually both brake and fuel lines will rot out. If you haven't done it yet, remove the cover/guard and clean the area to check condition of the lines. It goes without saying that if the lines look sketchy, you should replace them. I used stainless steel lines on my '63 hardtop for both brake and fuel lines, and should I have to replace on my '63 Sports Roadster I'd do the same again.

Assuming you're using a stock/OEM-style fuel pump on the engine, it should have enough suction to pull gas from the tank. If there's a crack or pinhole in the either the steel or rubber lines, it will pull in air and reduce or negate the pump's work.

Long story short - replace ALL rubber lines with ethanol-compatible hoses and make sure they're clamped well to the steel lines.
Alan H. Tast, AIA
Technical Director/Past President,
Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
1963 Hardtop & 1963 Sports Roadster

Marquette88
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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by Marquette88 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:27 pm

Thank you all for the great help! I'll take a fresh look at it today and hopefully at least diagnose my problem

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RedBird64
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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by RedBird64 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:20 pm

I would take that little undersized cheapo filter out of the circuit.
If it isn't causing problems drawing fuel it will likely cause starvation issues at heavy load and throttle settings.
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 41 years. It was my folks car before that (second owners). VTCI # 12013.

stevegintn
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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by stevegintn » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:11 pm

Marquette88, what RedBird said, and going back to your first photo, if you already had the sending unit out, why not replace it? (they are relatively inexpensive, and the first point that you can have a fuel flow problem).
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'02 Sportrac 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

Bungalocity
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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by Bungalocity » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:30 pm

Fun! I will attempt the same thing very soon - tank/straps/sending arriving tomorrow. Sounds like all good tips.
For what it's worth, mine had been sitting for a VERY long time, and only actual driving causes my new clear filter before carb to choke and go 1/2 empty or worse. Idling in drive, can do that all day. Must be the roadway and turns that stir up the pot I'm assuming

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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by stevegintn » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:33 am

Bungalocity wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:30 pm
Fun! I will attempt the same thing very soon - tank/straps/sending arriving tomorrow. Sounds like all good tips.
For what it's worth, mine had been sitting for a VERY long time, and only actual driving causes my new clear filter before carb to choke and go 1/2 empty or worse. Idling in drive, can do that all day. Must be the roadway and turns that stir up the pot I'm assuming
It will be a good investment - first major job I did on my 62 three years ago was new tank, sending unit, fuel pump, gas line to carb, and carb rebuild. I also added an electric choke, and replaced all the factory linkage (but that's another story on here).

Good luck!
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'02 Sportrac 4x4
'49 Ford 8N

Bungalocity
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Re: Starting issues after cleaning gas tank 62 t bird

Post by Bungalocity » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:44 pm

I am going to attempt a Japan-Black finish, at least on the top portion and straps. Stanley planes and storm/hinge hardware and Ford Model A fenders used this Linseed/Asphaltum treatment as a rust proofing. I may continue it to the lower-visible portion as well. Paint just peels off.

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