Stearing column dust cover

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Richard
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Stearing column dust cover

Post by Richard » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:31 am

After reading some posts about the rag joint I thought I better take a look..Luckily it looks great, all intact no loose pieces like I have seen in some posts..
While looking I can see the steering column lower dust cover also in great shape and the bottom of cover touching the rag joint..Is that where its supposed to be? Is the bushing that I read about in some posts above the dust cover? And how far up should the bushing be?
All that said I have replaced the shift lever which was really notched bad. I had to lift the lever sometimes to start her and now works perfect. I also have no play in the column at all,she steers great too..
Should I be thinking if it aint broke don't fix it?
Thanks for any advice.. :n00b:
1965 Hardtop Charcoal Gray Metallic
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paulr
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by paulr » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:13 am

Hi Richard,
I'm not understanding a couple things.
Richard wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:31 am
the steering column lower dust cover also in great shape and the bottom of cover touching the rag joint..Is that where its supposed to be?
Are you talking about the dust boot that's inside the car screwed to the firewall down by the foot of the column? It shouldn't be coming through the opening in the firewall far enough to touch the rag joint. Nothing should be touching the rag joint--it rotates. I'm confused.
Is the bushing that I read about in some posts above the dust cover? And how far up should the bushing be?
Here also, the lower column bushing isn't really relative to the column dust boot, but your question is how far up should it be? It's only maybe an inch or so inside the shift tube up from the bottom so it can't really be seen, not without taking things apart to inspect. If your shift column is straight and solid, then it's doing its job and you're in good shape.
Should I be thinking if it aint broke don't fix it?
On these cars, hell yes. I'm always whistling past the graveyard. :drinking:
Paul
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sseebart
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by sseebart » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:46 am

paulr wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:13 am
Hi Richard,
I'm not understanding a couple things.
Richard wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:31 am
the steering column lower dust cover also in great shape and the bottom of cover touching the rag joint..Is that where its supposed to be?
Are you talking about the dust boot that's inside the car screwed to the firewall down by the foot of the column? It shouldn't be coming through the opening in the firewall far enough to touch the rag joint. Nothing should be touching the rag joint--it rotates. I'm confused.
I believe Richard is referring to the centering cone. TBH, though, I can't remember if it should be above or below the bushing. Richard, a photo of the area would help--as Paul noted, something rubbing against the rag joint seems wrong.

~Steve

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Richard
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by Richard » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:54 pm

sseebart wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:46 am
paulr wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:13 am
Hi Richard,
I'm not understanding a couple things.
Richard wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:31 am
the steering column lower dust cover also in great shape and the bottom of cover touching the rag joint..Is that where its supposed to be?
Are you talking about the dust boot that's inside the car screwed to the firewall down by the foot of the column? It shouldn't be coming through the opening in the firewall far enough to touch the rag joint. Nothing should be touching the rag joint--it rotates. I'm confused.
I believe Richard is referring to the centering cone. TBH, though, I can't remember if it should be above or below the bushing. Richard, a photo of the area would help--as Paul noted, something rubbing against the rag joint seems wrong.

~Steve
Tried to get a good picture but cant,dropped my phone once trying ..What is coming out of the firewall and shift tube is what appears to be a white plastic cone shaped item. It is 3/4 of the way out sitting just above the rag joint body. Hope I am being clear.
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Richard
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by Richard » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:57 pm

paulr wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:13 am
Hi Richard,
I'm not understanding a couple things.
Richard wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:31 am
the steering column lower dust cover also in great shape and the bottom of cover touching the rag joint..Is that where its supposed to be?
Are you talking about the dust boot that's inside the car screwed to the firewall down by the foot of the column? It shouldn't be coming through the opening in the firewall far enough to touch the rag joint. Nothing should be touching the rag joint--it rotates. I'm confused.
Is the bushing that I read about in some posts above the dust cover? And how far up should the bushing be?
Here also, the lower column bushing isn't really relative to the column dust boot, but your question is how far up should it be? It's only maybe an inch or so inside the shift tube up from the bottom so it can't really be seen, not without taking things apart to inspect. If your shift column is straight and solid, then it's doing its job and you're in good shape.
Should I be thinking if it aint broke don't fix it?
On these cars, hell yes. I'm always whistling past the graveyard. :drinking:
When I can get the Tbird out again going to have friend turn steering wheel while I look to see what it is doing..Thanks..
1965 Hardtop Charcoal Gray Metallic
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paulr
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by paulr » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:40 pm

Richard, Steve is more clever by half, and you may have enlightened me as well. He’s right; the part you’re describing is the centering cone. In my case, when I overhauled the whole works I found that cone to be just dangling as well. What’s more, the new replacement cone seemed to be pretty loose fitting also. I think the part is kinda useless actually, except, as you call it—a “dust cover”. If only it fit a little more snug. The nearby bushing I mentioned above is much more important.
Paul
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Richard
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by Richard » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:46 pm

In the 65 shop manual on page 3-25 Fig. 17 it has a picture of the column and an arrow pointing to the Nylon Centering Cone and Nylon Bushing but they are not drawn in the picture..Confusing..
In the description to reinstall the column it says install the Centering Cone first then the Bushing. That leaves me to believe if the Cone goes in first and then Bushing and I am seeing the Cone then my Bushing must of fell out and Cone to far down. Does that make any sense?

Paul, We must have been typing at the same time..I am glad you told me that.So the Bushing must be above...Thanks
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sseebart
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by sseebart » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:46 pm

Yes, it's very common for the bushing to fall out. Less common for the centering cone not to simply follow it. It's possible to replace the bushing without removing the column & as Paul pointed out, vitally important to do so.

~Steve

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Richard
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by Richard » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:26 pm

sseebart wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:46 pm
Yes, it's very common for the bushing to fall out. Less common for the centering cone not to simply follow it. It's possible to replace the bushing without removing the column & as Paul pointed out, vitally important to do so.

~Steve
So now I am more confused..What goes in first Cone or Bushing? If the Bushing goes in first and Cone still there then the Bushing should still be there. Is that correct or is it other way ? Thanks Steve..
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sseebart
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by sseebart » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:47 pm

Here's a photo of an old centering cone that I pulled out of my car some years back (along with some other miscellaneous pieces:
HPIM4168.jpg
That spiral cut piece of PVC pipe was someone's idea of a replacement bushing, believe it or not.

I couldn't remember how I put it all together again, and as you say, the manual isn't exactly clear. I popped the hood on my car an snapped this photo:
IMG_20180614_153738.jpg
At least on my car, the cone is below the bushing, which is secured inside the column by that little notch you see there.

~Steve

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paulr
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by paulr » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:06 am

Richard wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:26 pm
sseebart wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:46 pm
Yes, it's very common for the bushing to fall out. Less common for the centering cone not to simply follow it. It's possible to replace the bushing without removing the column & as Paul pointed out, vitally important to do so.

~Steve
So now I am more confused..What goes in first Cone or Bushing? If the Bushing goes in first and Cone still there then the Bushing should still be there. Is that correct or is it other way ? Thanks Steve..
Practical experience. My steering shaft was sloppy as heck, bushing was just bits of degraded rubber, cone still there flopping around. "Dust cover" or no, that little nylon cone, IMHO, is just a useless part. It does not prevent dirt and grease from eventually creeping into the shift tube and degrading the bushing, which is the one of the parts that really keeps the shaft centered (there is also a metal centering washer in the collar near the top end of the shaft supporting the opposite end). I question what it "centers", given the metal and rubber centering bushings which are substantial compared to that flimsy nylon thingy.

Look through all the pages of your '65 manual. My '64 manual has 3 separate graphics of the shift column, exploded, emphasizing different aspects on different pages. Maybe our books are not the same. Mine does, however, show that the cone sits at the bottom; bushing rides above it on the shaft.

@sseebart
That spiral cut piece of PVC pipe was someone's idea of a replacement bushing, believe it or not.
Mine had the identical PVC pipe chunk, cut spirally just so. Someone must have ~faxed~ that around to everyone as the cure-all for columns back in the '80s when columns started needing help. Maybe they xeroxed it. :roll:
Paul
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paulr
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by paulr » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:17 am

Hey, check this out Richard, Steve's showing the answer right here...
The attachment Screenshot 2018-06-14 21.12.01.png is no longer available
That little black tab of rubber protruding through the blue steering column paint is the tang on the rubber bushing. You're looking at an installed bushing with the cone installed below it on the shaft.
Screenshot 2018-06-14 21.12.01.png
Paul
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Richard
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by Richard » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:22 am

OK now I understand because of the picture..Looked at it again and the cone has nothing to do with the bushing..The bushing is between the column and shift tube and the cone goes into the shift tube,I think that's right? Now I see that the notch in the column is empty so mine is missing. And my cone sits just like Steves picture too so that's OK. Will be calling Pat Wilson this morning for the part,saw it on his website for $10. And as I have read make a slice in it and install. ..Thanks Steve and Paul for your help..

Funny you both had same cone fix..
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Richard
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by Richard » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:17 am

paulr wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:17 am
Hey, check this out Richard, Steve's showing the answer right here...
Screenshot 2018-06-14 21.12.01.png
That little black tab of rubber protruding through the blue steering column paint is the tang on the rubber bushing. You're looking at an installed bushing with the cone installed below it on the shaft.
Screenshot 2018-06-14 21.18.35.png
Steve and Paul,
Been reading posts about installing bushing with column in car and says cut bushing in middle of tang. I would have thought leave that piece intact to help hold it in and cut at bottom of bushing. Please tell me your thoughts.
I have the bushing coming next week. I plan on removing fender shield. Should be easy,its been off before when I changed the short fuel line,it sure needed it too!!
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paulr
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Re: Stearing column dust cover

Post by paulr » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:27 pm

Richard wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:17 am
paulr wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:17 am
Hey, check this out Richard, Steve's showing the answer right here...
Screenshot 2018-06-14 21.12.01.png
That little black tab of rubber protruding through the blue steering column paint is the tang on the rubber bushing. You're looking at an installed bushing with the cone installed below it on the shaft.
Screenshot 2018-06-14 21.18.35.png
Steve and Paul,
Been reading posts about installing bushing with column in car and says cut bushing in middle of tang. I would have thought leave that piece intact to help hold it in and cut at bottom of bushing. Please tell me your thoughts.
I have the bushing coming next week. I plan on removing fender shield. Should be easy,its been off before when I changed the short fuel line,it sure needed it too!!
Screenshot 2018-06-14 21.18.35.png
(I added pic to be sure we're seeing the same part).
On my own car I had my column on the bench so cut wasn't needed. On buddy's MY65, however, we left the column in car and followed the instructions: we cut with a utility knife straight through the middle of the tang. Both cars, bushings cut or uncut, that tang is a tight squeeze in the opening--it stays put. That's been a few years, and it has not moved. It's been a good experience, and my 2 cents.
(Getting it up there in place is a little awkward. I poked it up there using a shorty screwdriver and some needlenose pliers.)
Good luck, Richard.
Paul
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'64 Landau
"Beer, now there's a temporary solution!" ~Homer Simpson

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