Woes...

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jtschug
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:33 pm

Re: Woes...

Post by jtschug »

Here is the problem: The compressor mounting bracket is supposed to sandwich in between the P/S pump bracket and the cylinder head. That thing is like 3/8" thick. So your pump is sitting rearward too far and the front PS bracket is on there crooked because it is mounted to the water pump in the right spot, but where it bolts to the other half of the bracket to too far rearward. If you aren't going to install the A/C compressor bracket (shelf), then you need to stack up washers and shim the P/S bracket out like 3/8". Just keep adding washers until that P/S belt is straight.
1966 Thunderbird Convertible (Emberglo / White-Emberglo)
Modified 428 - stroked, rollercam, aluminum top end, headers
Livermore, CA
DakotaLee
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:20 pm

Re: Woes...

Post by DakotaLee »

paulr wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:39 pm Viewing a photo for belt alignment is not as easy as being there--good photos, all the same. Looks like your PS belt is way out on the crank. Is that it? What did you end up with crank pulley-wise? Could you get a photo from below, shooting up? (I know, not easy).

I sympathize with this, champ, believe me. When I first bought my '64, though the setup is different from yours, my P.O. had improved it with cobbled parts from various year Tbirds, other Fords, even a (bleaahh!) Mopar washer pump. I had to source all the same bracket and idler issues you're dealing with. Thought I would lose my mind there for a few days, but it came together when I mapped it out in the manual and the Osborn diagrams. I just went for stock configuration and the thing fell into place. Yours will, too. Courage, man.
https://imgur.com/a/MkfpIpT

Here are the pics, check it out. Thanks a lot for the encouraging words!!
Here is the problem: The compressor mounting bracket is supposed to sandwich in between the P/S pump bracket and the cylinder head. That thing is like 3/8" thick. So your pump is sitting rearward too far and the front PS bracket is on there crooked because it is mounted to the water pump in the right spot, but where it bolts to the other half of the bracket to too far rearward. If you aren't going to install the A/C compressor bracket (shelf), then you need to stack up washers and shim the P/S bracket out like 3/8". Just keep adding washers until that P/S belt is straight.
I'll hop on that too, see if it makes a difference!
'66 Town Hardtop
SoCal
DakotaLee
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:20 pm

Re: Woes...

Post by DakotaLee »

https://imgur.com/a/cMpFTTe

So today I loosely reattached the P/S pump mount, to test the spacing on the 3 washers on the inside bracket. I measured it with the compressor mount, and the spacing is perfect. As you can see, the p/s pump is still about an inch behind the middle crankshaft pulley.(without being tightened!)

I can only imagine that the issue is my crank pulley, or P/S pump, is not correct. The last photo in the album shows the single groove replacement I sourced, which matches Steve's photos of his '64. Does this seem to be the culprit? I can't imagine how else I'm mounting this P/S bracket wrong.
'66 Town Hardtop
SoCal
jtschug
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:33 pm

Re: Woes...

Post by jtschug »

It is hard to tell from these pictures. The crank pulley looks a little suspicious, but it could be correct. If the pump is too far rearward, keep shimming the brackets out until it is in the right place. You can't adjust the crank pulley, the only way to get is right is shimming the P/S bracket. Remove those two washers between the P/S bracket and the water pump. It looks like those are causing the bracket assembly to pivot counterclockwise in this view. Tighten the bolts between the two piece bracket and make that part of it rigid, and don't get discouraged until everything is tightened down, the belt is on and you can take some measurements with a straight edge.
1966 Thunderbird Convertible (Emberglo / White-Emberglo)
Modified 428 - stroked, rollercam, aluminum top end, headers
Livermore, CA
DakotaLee
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:20 pm

Re: Woes...

Post by DakotaLee »

I've attached some better shots after taking all of these guys out of the car. Can anybody shed light on these pulleys? As you can see, when attached, the 3 groove pulley doesn't even align with the water pump pulley. This makes it a non-option.
20180907_181205.jpg
This is the true angle, not the photograph. I spent some time getting the shot right.
20180907_181001.jpg
Seems as if the balancer isn't pushed all the way in. Yes? No? Normal?
20180907_161314.jpg





I've sourced and attached these pulleys like your '64 Steve. Perfect fit with the alternator, but it ends up making me have to shim the P/S bracket another inch and a half. It's just not sturdy at that distance, and it looks awful. I think the crank pulley here just isn't for a '66.
20180907_181219.jpg

Some perfect scenario would allow me to use the single groove w/p pulley with the 3 groove crank pulley, but they end up touching... And that ain't gonna work. Again, no solution in sight. I spent a good deal of time on the phone with a fellow at the Bird's Nest. While extremely helpful and kind, it circled me back to where I am now.
'66 Town Hardtop
SoCal
jtschug
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:33 pm

Re: Woes...

Post by jtschug »

I agree the balancer doesn’t look like it is all the way on. Is it touching the spacer in the back, or is there a gap between them?
1966 Thunderbird Convertible (Emberglo / White-Emberglo)
Modified 428 - stroked, rollercam, aluminum top end, headers
Livermore, CA
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sseebart
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Re: Woes...

Post by sseebart »

Not sure if this photo is helpful, but I agree that the balancer doesn't appear to be seated.

~Steve
IMG_20180908_091240.jpg
DakotaLee
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:20 pm

Re: Woes...

Post by DakotaLee »

Well well well.

Found the missing link. Of course the shop manual holds the key.
20180910_142456.jpg
A flat bolt-on pulley goes in front of the damper. There's plenty of aftermarket aluminum pulleys that fit that spec. I actually had one brand-new, but I can't find it. Had to order another. Will attempt in a couple days, but this should be it. In the mean-time, I reinstalled the damper, to make sure it sat correctly. Also took the radiator out for more work space.
'66 Town Hardtop
SoCal
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