Bogus VIN 57

[55Greg&Amy]

BUYER BEWARE!!!!!!!! I came across this 57 for sale on e-bay. It's about 30 miles from home and I may try to get there and talk to the dealer selling the car. The vin is listed as D7FH115A51. Ford never put a letter in the number sequence after the D7FH as this is just a consecutive number of the vehicles built on the assembly line.

http://clients.automanager.com/scripts/ ... f8d&PID=35


The vin on the data plate is etched in and done very poorly. The original would have been raised letters and numbers not etched in.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/311754924409?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

[Joe Johnston]

Please check this one out if at all possible. I found a bogus vin on a convertible advertised as a Sport Roadster here in FL. (details posted months ago in the 61-63 section) There were SO many things wrong with the car, but it was an eye catcher. The dealer sold it, I just hope the buyer didn't get hurt. In the process of checking into that car I found out an interesting loophole. The 57 vin tags make no mention of the tag not being used for title verification, so I would assume this 57 title and tag will match which means it can be legally sold as it stands. Later vin tag decals state the tag is not to be used for vin/title verification and the stamped numbers in the sheet metal are to be used. The 63 convertible had the stamped numbers roughly painted over and illegible. HOWEVER a very nice and shiny small vin number only tag was prominently riveted on the radiator core support near the stamped number location. This tag was made up but was not used by Ford in 63, but provided a "positive" ID - (even if incorrect) to any inspector. Of course the numbers all matched - even if they were for a sedan instead of a convertible, let alone a sport roadster!

When I moved to FL my cars had to be inspected. The girl looked at the 57 and said there was no vin number on the dash visible through the windshield. "ALL cars have this!" I just politely asked her to get her supervisor and he explained the car is much too old for that. Same woman inspected the 63 and just looked at the door tag and used that number - even though the decal says that is not for that purpose. Seems as though it would be very easy to commit fraud when the inspectors do not follow the rules. Talked to the deputies at the station about this and they basically said they do not get involved unless there is a legal issue and a dispute. If a car has a vin, a title, and a valid out of state registration, you basically are good to go. They do not know or check all the vin codes for each model that need inspecting, they just sign and process the paperwork.

That 57 tag is terrible & hope you can read the vin # stamped in the frame (I bet you a coffee you won't be able to)! Unfortunately it will sell and be all legal, even if a forged title or past stolen car. Hope you can explain everything to the seller and he understands the tag is bogus.

[goldwinghg]

I would think,that this could be a nightmare,getting it approved by the DMV.

[Joe Johnston]

I would think,that this could be a nightmare,getting it approved by the DMV.

Making it correct is a big hassle which could take years, during which the car is not registered or driveable. Adding to that is the risk of losing the car should it be determined stolen. If prior paperwork is all in agreement with a number on the car, nothing is done beyond processing the paperwork. That all changes when a buyer realizes he paid top dollar for something mis-represented, and is willing to move forward. The 63 I mentioned was just moved on for someone else to deal with. Big problem with no easy solution.

[55Greg&Amy]

Update, I just found this car in the registry with the correct VIN number of D7FH115451. The etched vin has an A but should be a 4. I'm still gonna try to get to the dealer tomorrow with hopes of helping them out. The registry has it listed as having the engine dress up kit but it doesn't have it now.


http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdatash ... mber=40881

[Joe Johnston]

Wonder what the paperwork has, an "A" or a "4"?? Hopefully it is just a clumsy guy trying to "improve" things with a hand held engraver!

[David Tulowitzky]

This car was titled in Ohio a few years ago as D7FH115451. It was located in Putman County, Ohio
Dave Tulowitzky

  ODPS Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles
Property Information
Type: Vehicle
VIN: D7FH115451
Year: 1957
Make: FORD
Model:
Body Type: Two Door

Current Title Information
Title Number: 6900285133
Title Status: Active
Owner Name: THE UNION BANK
Number of Owners: 1
 
Resides in County: 69

[CSavaglio]

Man, almost had me fooled......all the sarcasm in the world intended....

The serial number/VIN should also be stamped on the top of the passenger frame rail a bit behind the upper control arm. But then, that could've been sanded off and re-etched by the same drunk 4 year old who did the cowl tag.

Good watching out. Hopefully nobody gets burned by this car...who knows its history. Could have been stolen, totaled, etc in its previous life.

C

[55Greg&Amy]

Good news, bad news. I took a drive today and talked to the dealer. The dealer has the title in hand and the VIN is correct on the title. I was then taken to a warehouse, by the grandson, to where the car is stored and allowed to inspect it. I checked the data plate and found the numbers written on with felt tip marker that gave the illusion in the photos as being engraved. The marker was easily wiped off using a wet cloth and the raised VIN was correct and unmolested but could not see the VIN on the frame as it was somewhat rusty there. I checked the car pretty well and it is in very rough shape. I was told by the dealer the the car went through a frame off restoration. I believe the body has been off the frame and some panels replaced and a very nice, although incorrect to the data plate, paint job was given. The underside of the car was painted black. There is evidence of both door posts, inner and outer rockers replaced. The floor to rocker supports are rusted away and replaced with some simple metal brackets on both sides but it is solid. This is where I think the good points end. The interior is now red and done very poorly. The door were never adjusted correctly and the hinges are worn as both doors sag enough that the door cards nearly pull off the doors when they are opened. The driver outside door handle is only held on with 1 screw and pulls away from the body when you try to open the door. The wiring under the dash is a nightmare of original cracked wires with several splices and taped joints. I could see bare wire through the cracks of several wires, enough that I didn't even feel comfortable enough to connect the battery and see if anything worked. There is a bonus aftermarket radio in the glovebox and several empty bulb holders hanging from under the dash. The firewall insulation is missing on the driver side and broken all over on the passenger side. The sunvisors and outside wind wing glass and upper hinges are missing from both sides. The steering wheel is a red peeling mess with the original black showing all over. Under the hood is of driver quality as everything is dirty, rusty and incorrect. I did not get into the trunk as the grandson could not find the trunk key. I was only able to fold the seat forward and view it from the driver compartment. I could only see a spare tire and a box that had some parts in it but unable to see what parts were there. There is no convertible top or swing-arm assembly. There is no power equipment in the vehicle and no dress up kit on the engine. I think the only option it had was a town & country radio.

[goldwinghg]

Sounds like this car would have to be cheap,and a project for someone. A lot of money,and time for somebody.

[Joe Johnston]

Sounds like good news and not fraudulent at all. I found it on the dealer's website and thought it was overpriced, but he has to start somewhere. Thanks for checking into it and reporting on the condition.

[CSPIDY]

This car has been on EBay since I began looking for a Tbird almost a year ago, I thought it was odd that it never sold. this all makes sense now. I think it holds the record for the numbers of auctions and not selling.

[CSavaglio]

Good news it's not anyone trying to pass of something iffy, as far as the VIN goes. Bad news it's not a nice car. It looks decent in the pics. Good lesson to not buy a car sight unseen since it looks pretty good in the ad.....

[paul2748]

And they are asking 15,100 for it ???

[CSPIDY]

Actually that is just the highest bid, that doesn't meet the reserve. I've never seen more than 17k bid on it.