Brake Problem

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flyinthermals
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Brake Problem

Post by flyinthermals »

Hello,
I have a brake issue that I cannot solve. The car pulls to the left when braking. It steers straight and smooth while driving and turning but whenever I apply the brakes either hard or softly the car pulls to the left. I have read and re-read the manual and trouble- shooting pages but cannot figure it out. It has new wheel cylinders and shoes and hardware. I have tried to adjust the brakes many times but still have a pull to the left. :sad: There are no visible leaks and I am not losing fluid. When the wheels are off the ground there is no play in the wheels either vertically or horizontally. Anyone have any similar experience with the 62s. Thank you to all that reply.
BobHH
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by BobHH »

Well, back in the old days!!! I hate saying that!!! I would swap front tires. If the problem is still, there swap the brake drums. Most of the time it is in the adjustment of the front brakes but I have seen where the drum may be worn so much the shoes do not make full contact causing it to grab.

If the problem still exist then, those 2 items have been eliminated. if you have changed the cylinders, check the brake lines to make sure there is no build up inside the lines.
Bob Harris
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redbow
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by redbow »

I drove my 35 Ford panel truck almost a year before I discovered that I had no rear brakes. Turns out the rubber hose from the solid line to the rear end line had collapsed internally. Replaced that and all was cool. Just a thought.

Burke
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flyinthermals
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by flyinthermals »

Thanks for the reply.

A friend asked me to look at possible air in the system and also a groove in the backing plate that may be causing the shoes to bind and not fully extend against the drum. Everything worked fine for about 1000 miles and then this year has been pulling since the second time I took the car out.
Joe Johnston
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by Joe Johnston »

How old are the rubber hoses to the wheel cylinders?
I would replace them and the rear one too, bleed the brakes and take it for a test drive before doing or spending much more.
PLEASE invest a few bucks and buy all the shop manuals for your car. Definitely will save you much time and be an education.

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ABQTBird
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by ABQTBird »

and also a groove in the backing plate that may be causing the shoes to bind and not fully extend against the drum.
That sounds kind of far-fetched to me. The backing plates have some stand-offs stamped into them that the shoes ride on.
Image

There are a few things you haven't mentioned. When did this happen? Had you been driving the car regularly or was this your first spin after the car sat for a long period of time? What does the pedal feel like, both with the engine off and engine on? Is it mushy or firm? If you rapidly pump the pedal, does it firm up?

Time to get your hands dirty and pull the wheels and inspect them rather than speculate. Since the car pulls to the left, start on the right side, since that is the side that is weak. Jack up the right front tire and with a helper in the driver's seat, spin the tire and have your helper press on the brake pedal. What kind of noises do you hear and does the wheel indeed stop? Then take the wheel off and actually inspect it. There could be a number of things wrong. If there is a broken spring or the self adjuster cable is broken or misplaced, it will be pretty obvious. Check to make sure the primary or small shoe is facing front and the large secondary is facing rear. We have seen several pictures here where the shoes have been installed backwards. Check for leaks. Even though your parts may be new, in this age of repro parts, the cylinder could be faulty.

After inspecting them, as Joe said, bleed them until the fluid at all four wheels is clean. Buy a number of small bottles vs. one large one. You don't want to use leftover brake fluid from an open bottle six months down the road. Since I don't usually have a helper around, I use a MightyVac. Starting at the right-rear, you can just pump away until the new fluid arrives, checking the reservoir periodically to keep it full. It is a very useful tool to have around since it can be used for more than just brake bleeding. I don't mean to insult your intelligence but I don't know how much experience you have with bleeding brakes. The pattern is RR, LR, RF, and LF. There have also been some threads here discussing a change in the design of the front cylinders where the bleeder sticks straight out instead of angled to the rear. In that case you may not be able to use the Mightyvac but may have to resort to the two-person method. Also, the bleeder should be 3/8". If you can't get a standard wrench on it, let me know as I have a bunch of 3/8" ignition wrenches which are flatter than a standard wrench. PM me and I can send you one if you have that trouble.

MightyVac: http://www.harborfreight.com/mityvac-va ... 39522.html
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Cliff Rankin
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by Cliff Rankin »

After briefly reading this. I say go back and check the shoes. Primary / secondary installed
Correctly.
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smorgasbird
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by smorgasbird »

I had the same problem on my '61. It turned out to be weak brake shoe retractor springs (on one side). It's easy enough to find out if that's your problem. Simply swap the springs from one side to the other and see if the car pulls to the other side. If not, you can rule that out.
Mike S
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30psi
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by 30psi »

I had exactly the same thing. Was a collapsed hose to the weaker side.

I took the hose out the cylinder and with someone pushing hard on the brake pedal, the fluid only dribbled out rather than shoot out
flyinthermals
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by flyinthermals »

Thank you for all the replies. I will be trying to work on the car tomorrow and get closer to the problem. The initial scan of the brakes last week showed no signs of leaking. The wheels were off and I examine all the hoses and the wheel cylinder of the right side showed nothing wrong. The brake hoses, drums, shoes, brake cylinders and some springs were new last summer. I will try to take pictures and post as I try to find the solution from the great tips and advice given. Thanks all.
novanutcase
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by novanutcase »

Glazed shoe? If one of the shoes is glazed the other will grab and pull the car to one side.

When you replaced the shoes did you bed them correctly? Were the brake shoes arched? Some brake shoes may fit to the correct attach points but not be the correct arch in comparison to the drum.If one shoe is making more contact with the drum than the other it will also grab more than the other side and pull the car.
ABQTBird wrote:
and also a groove in the backing plate that may be causing the shoes to bind and not fully extend against the drum.
That sounds kind of far-fetched to me. The backing plates have some stand-offs stamped into them that the shoes ride on.
Not really! When I first bought the '61 and opened up the brakes to service them whoever did the service neglected to add a little white lithium grease in the raised spot and a groove ensued. I had to get new backing plates it was so bad and the shoes would bind as was mentioned earlier.

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flyinthermals
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by flyinthermals »

Hello All,

I finally got some time to myself to look at the brakes again after reading the advice given here. I think I may have found part of the problem. After reading and re-reading the brake posts from this site I think I may be missing some parts. The photos of my 62 HT brakes show the bottom shoe return spring resting against the shoe adjuster wheel. It doesn't seem right. The Tbird part supplier in my area told me that there is no self adjuster set up on my front brakes on my 62HT when I bought these parts for the mechanic initially. . The mechanic set the brakes up as seen in the picture. From reading the posts on brakes and Allan post below I think I am missing the self adjuster kit. What supplier would be the best to order from to ensure the correct parts and proper cable length as I read was a problem for a few members here?


From Allan's post I think I have found a big part of the problem with my front brakes. The part number Allan quoted "C1SS 2A178-A " is what I need for my 62. I am not sure if the bottom return spring on my shoes is correct.???????
Basic # 2A178
1961-1962 - C1SS 2A178-A - 11 1/8" L (FD 7752-61, p. 18; MPC Sec 21 p. 9, Change #35, Rev Aug 1968; "Blue Bible" p. 29)
Also used rear brakes 1967-68 (probably later) T-bird (MPC Sec 21 p. 9, Change #35, Rev Aug 1968) - need to review 1965-72 MPC Final Issue to confirm later usage)

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eb88
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by eb88 »

30psi wrote:I had exactly the same thing. Was a collapsed hose to the weaker side.

I took the hose out the cylinder and with someone pushing hard on the brake pedal, the fluid only dribbled out rather than shoot out
Similarly it was my rear hose that was doing exactly this, so basically it turns out I was driving without rear brakes for a few years. Replaced it and all the brake cylinders / hoses / shoes / springs / adjusters / hard lines & drums along with a rebuilt booster and new master cylinder and the difference was incredible.

Image

Anyway your front brake set-up should look like this, you are missing the self adjusting parts, readily available at any of the tbird vendors.

Image
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flyinthermals
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by flyinthermals »

I will order the parts today. I will order those elusive angled wheel cylinders. If I can find them.
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eb88
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Re: Brake Problem

Post by eb88 »

flyinthermals wrote:I will order the parts today. I will order those elusive angled wheel cylinders. If I can find them.
Please let me know if and where you find them! I've spent more time attempting to bleed the front brakes than the time it took to install the engine and transmission.
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