Noisy power steering

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Klaidlaw
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Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:16 pm

Noisy power steering

Post by Klaidlaw » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:10 pm

I submitted this in the modified forum, but was told that this maybe a better place to ask. I have a 62 Bird, and when the engine runs at low RPMs, when parking, the steering makes a growling sound. The fluid level is right up, and I was wondering if this was a sign of a weak pump. At normal RPMs, there is no noise. If anyone can shed a light on this issue, I would appreciate your help. I intend to overhaul the steering this winter, and was wondering if I should include a new steering pump.

smorgasbird
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Re: Noisy power steering

Post by smorgasbird » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:11 am

The growling may not a sign of a weak pump, but it is the only part of the steering system that would make such a noise. Do you still have the original pump in place? I replaced the pump in my '61 because the bearings were so worn that the play in the shaft caused it to leak at the seal just behind the pulley. I don't think replacement parts are available to rebuild the pump either, but I may be wrong. Good luck.
Mike S
Grand Rapids, Mi
'61 red HT

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novanutcase
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Re: Noisy power steering

Post by novanutcase » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:41 pm

Klaidlaw wrote:I submitted this in the modified forum, but was told that this maybe a better place to ask. I have a 62 Bird, and when the engine runs at low RPMs, when parking, the steering makes a growling sound. The fluid level is right up, and I was wondering if this was a sign of a weak pump. At normal RPMs, there is no noise. If anyone can shed a light on this issue, I would appreciate your help. I intend to overhaul the steering this winter, and was wondering if I should include a new steering pump.
I'm going to say it's the pump. My reasoning is that at higher rpm the pump is being run at an adequate speed to pump enough fluid into the steering unit but at low speed it isn't keeping up and, hence, the growling noise you hear.

JMO

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jgreene1
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Re: Noisy power steering

Post by jgreene1 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:32 am

I have a '63 Tbird with power steering issues including groaning. All lines have been replaced, the pump, and a leak in the steering box has been corrected. The wipers were isolated, so that doesn't seem to be the problem. The mechanic tells me it is steering fine, but it still groans. The fluid in it is Type F. He is running out of ideas, as am I. Could this be a faulty new pump? What should the pressures be in the system?
Thank you
Jim Greene

Cliff Rankin
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Re: Noisy power steering

Post by Cliff Rankin » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:37 pm

Jim , if The car is sucking in air or a stubborn air pocket it can whine. Just because it does not leak out does not mean it can’t suck in. And it could be a bad pump. I learned this the hard way on a Jeep. Is the car livable
Besides the noise? I put a pump on a 64 and it gave me
Hell. We decided to live with it for the time being and
Move on to other issues. The car is not 100% but has
Really quite down with time. Mom had Lincolns growing
Up and I remember some of them whining here and there.
But I’m not saying that’s right. When you look at the fluid
Is it foaming ? I’m sure your guy turned the wheels lock to lock trying to get air out. Old cars can really eat your
Lunch , so you got to love them to work on them.
Please post what you find out as you work threw this.
Cliff

Blobird
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Location: Sweden

Re: Noisy power steering

Post by Blobird » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:39 am

I also have problems with noise in the servo pump, switch from type G to type F oil and aired according to the manual. The noise went away for a little while, but after a week or so the pump started to drip oil when I stopped the engine. I then ordered a new pump and pressure line from Rock Auto that I mounted. I filled up with Type F oil, and aired the system according to the manual, checked the level, and took a test trip. Thought I could hear a slight winning sound from the beginning, but it slowed down after it got hot. The next day, when I started it, a rather loud winning sound was heard from the beginning, almost declining almost when I drove about 15 miles. I will try to reduce the belt tension a bit, because I have tense it quite a lot, so this can not hurt the pump, otherwise I have no ideas at the moment. This post follows interest, as well as most posts on this forum.
Lennart Sahlin Sweden
63 SR
Lennart Sahlin Langsele / Sweden
1963 Thunderbird SR Red / Red. Black Canvas Top
1983 T-23 Streetrod Candy-red / Black

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MN63Tbird
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Location: Minnesota

Re: Noisy power steering

Post by MN63Tbird » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:47 pm

My experience with the groaning noise at low RPM when you just start out was due to cavitation of the power steering pump. Cavitation is when you suck in air into the system on the suction side of the pump. The air gets compressed and then explodes when it hits the impeller. That causes the groaning or growling noise. Check your fittings on the suction side of the pump (pump to the reservoir) . I noticed foam in my reservoir after driving and that was the source of the noise. In my case it took a while but found that the filter was plugged causing the return fluid to foam. Replacing the filter and allowing just a little of pressure relief at the top of the reservoir cured the noise.

MN63
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code

Blobird
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Location: Sweden

Re: Noisy power steering

Post by Blobird » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:13 am

Thanks for your tips about the filter NM63Tbird , very interesting, I'll try to reduce the spring pressure on the filter (which is very big in my case).
And maybe try without filter, then my filter is new.
I have noted that many have removed their filters in their containers!
One might wonder why maybe that's the solution? We'll see after I've tried. Probably the next weekend.
I will report as soon as I tried.
Best regards Lennart Sahlin / Sweden
Lennart Sahlin Langsele / Sweden
1963 Thunderbird SR Red / Red. Black Canvas Top
1983 T-23 Streetrod Candy-red / Black

jgreene1
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Noisy power steering

Post by jgreene1 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:47 pm

There is a very large hose(diameter) running from the pump to the reservoir. Does this hose have any pressure in it, as in could it cause cavitation if it were leaking? All the hoses have been replaced on the power steering on my '63 Thunderbird.
Thank you
Jim Greene

tbird
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Re: Noisy power steering

Post by tbird » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:27 pm

Assume that you have the remote power steering reservoir.

The hose from the reservoir runs to the pump suction port so if you did have perforations in the hose that could allow air to enter the system. Keep in mind that if the hose did leak air in it could quite likely allow oil to seep out when the engine was shut off it may also leak oil out of the hose.

I think your problem likely is caused by never getting the air out of the system completely when the hoes where replaced and refilled with oil.

Click the link below and it will take you to the tech section where you will find a procedure on how to refill and bleed a 61/63 Thunderbird power steering system that I posted a number of year ago. if the system has air trapped it can start building up creating more and more cavitation as it is operated.



https://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net/ ... 069#p33259
Jim Mills
VTCI # 8071
VTCI 1964-66 Technical Editor
2002 Thunderbird
1965 Convertible
1962 Convertible (in progress)
1959 Ford Retractable HT
Many parts cars

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RedBird64
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Re: Noisy power steering

Post by RedBird64 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:58 pm

Before doing anything else, I would replace the power steering filter. They are often overlooked the entire life of the car and never serviced.
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 41 years. It was my folks car before that (not orig owners). VTCI # 12013.

ICON 1961
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Re: Noisy power steering

Post by ICON 1961 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:37 am

When I had my 61 bird I too experience the slight winning noise coming from my power steering pump, I checked everything and still heard the noise only when the car sits when I turned the steering wheel. I never had any other issues with the pump in steering only hearing a mild winning sound . No leaks.
1956 Thunderbird Sage Green
1997 Heritage Springer with Motorvation matching side Car Red/Birch White
2015 Tri Glide Harley Davidson Trike
VTCI Member # 12309

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RedBird64
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Re: Noisy power steering

Post by RedBird64 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:33 am

Long story but at one time my PS pump was assembled backwards (buddy picked up part from workbench to look at it..) and would get hot. Several months later I fixed the mistake but my pump would tend to growl when cold or when turning the wheels at idle after that. Sometimes it would even chatter.
Out of desperation, I changed the fluid over to synthetic. It works perfectly now, even cold.
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 41 years. It was my folks car before that (not orig owners). VTCI # 12013.

jgreene1
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Noisy power steering

Post by jgreene1 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:59 pm

Thank you for all of the helpful posts about groaning power steering on my '63 T-Bird w/AC. I seem to have the groaning out of the system, but it is still up on jack stands in the garage. I have a feeling when I lower and drive it, it will start groaning again. By the way if you turn the steering wheel back and forth with the car off, bubbles seem to come up out of the reservoir. Stupid question---am I introducing air into the system, or getting rid of air when the car isn't running and I turn the wheel? Also, does anyone have the spec (diameter) of the hose running from the pump to the reservoir? Remember this is a factory A/C car.
Thank you again--amazing what you find out on forums!
Jim Greene

tbird
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Re: Noisy power steering

Post by tbird » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:31 pm

Jim did you go to the tech post that I gave you last night and follow the procedure yet?
Jim Mills
VTCI # 8071
VTCI 1964-66 Technical Editor
2002 Thunderbird
1965 Convertible
1962 Convertible (in progress)
1959 Ford Retractable HT
Many parts cars

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