Brake Problem

[eb88]

I decided to start over and buy all new brake parts.

Sometimes, it's for the best.
While it's more satisfying and proactive to diagnose and isolate an individual problem, rather than chucking new parts at it, it's good to start from scratch.
For example I had a very faint squeak from the front drivers side wheel upon coming to a full stop right at the end of braking. I started with the bearings, then shoes, then the cylinders, still persisted. In the end, I tore everything apart, both sides right down to the spindles and started over with all new parts including the drums, squeak gone.

Did everyone who installed new drums, turn the drums first? I was told by the supplier to turn the new drums with the hub. Are we just making sure to eliminate any potential vibration issues by turning new drums?

My '63 was wearing it's original Ford drums with the 'integrated' hubs. They had been turned to the maximum extent of their law and had to be replaced. Sadly I couldn't find Ford made drums so had to go with a reproduction pair from a thunderbird parts vendor. These unfortunately to no surprise had a made in Taiwan sticker on the box, but more importantly, they came with a note. "Turn Drums Before Use"

A seasoned mechanic I know here said "that's bs, they're new drums, they should be good to go out the box" I thought it was no harm bringing them to a local machine shop for a closer look. They asked me to bring along the old hubs, so I separated them from the old drums with a dremel tool, block of wood and a hammer.

They mounted them up, gave them a spin and said "Whilst these drums are indeed 'new' they appear to be more triangular as opposed to circular as far as machinist tolerances are concerned" and explained these would of caused me problems without a shadow of doubt had I of used them straight out the box.

£40 each later, I now had a proper pair of new drums to use. I think the story is here, before parts with tolerances like these were made in the far east, there was a lot more quality control in place. The mechanic I spoke of was probably right, back in the 60's new drums would of come with hubs installed and were probably machined correctly at the foundry and good to go. Sadly nowadays this obviously isn't the case.

As I said earlier I've replaced absolutely every single part of the braking system with NOS (Ford) parts where possible to ensure proper fit and function, luckily my original rear drums where still serviceable, and I now have no issues at all, with a four drum setup on such big cars, you've got to give them the best chance they can possibly have at slowing you down.

I'll take some proper photos of the fronts when the drums are off next (hopefully not for a long time now they're finished..) below are my rears on a completely rebuilt axle when they were going back together for when you tackle yours.







And for goodness sake if you suspect anything to be an original factory part, do not throw it away, clean 'em up. It may well be irreplaceable and save you a headache later.

[Alan H. Tast]

And for goodness sake if you suspect anything to be an original factory part, do not throw it away, clean 'em up. It may well be irreplaceable and save you a headache later.

Over 35+ years of playing with old cars, I haven't thrown any original parts away unless they were so mangled, deteriorated or otherwise compromised that they couldn't be refinished or saved. However, the bins and totes I went through last night of "saved" parts while rummaging for pieces to put my '40 Ford tudor back together were a reminder that this practice can get out of hand if you're not organized.

[Karl]

Allan,
I have a saying that my wife still can't understand and that is:-

If you havn't found a use for something you havn't had it long enough.

Karl.

[flyinthermals]

Hello eb88,

Thank you for the reply. My old new drums were turned twice when they were new(first machine shop messed them up). I don't think there is any room left to keep them within limits. I will try to find a shop in my area that knows these older cars and can turn the drums perfect first time. As I occasionally look at part cars, I will keep my eyes out for original parts. I wish I had those original wheel cylinders.

Has anyone found it unnecessary to turn their new front drums front and what supplier did you purchase them from? Thanks.

[eb88]

I wish I had those original wheel cylinders.

Has anyone found it unnecessary to turn their new front drums front and what supplier did you purchase them from? Thanks.

Mine are sadly reproduction 'Raybestos' brand Far East made wheel cylinders, but I have every intention of hunting down originals to rebore and rebuild. Epsecially the fronts!

And look put it this way, I'm sure whoever you order your reproduction drums from they will have most likely been made in Asia, and will require fine tuning (turning) to a respectable and useable tolerance.
On the subject and the other hand - if I were to stroll into a Ford dealer here and ask for a pair of new rear drums for my 2010 Ford KA or similar small hatch back, they would be ready out the box. Because they would have been made/approved/lisenced by Ford

Also keep your eyes peeled for American made / NOS drums - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Front-Brake ... 67&vxp=mtr

[60fore]

It's a shame I didn't know of your need earlier Elliot; two weeks ago I sold a pair of NOS Ford front brake drums for 63-4 Birds. Shipping cost from Canada to England would have been a fright though...

[eb88]

It's a shame I didn't know of your need earlier Elliot; two weeks ago I sold a pair of NOS Ford front brake drums for 63-4 Birds. Shipping cost from Canada to England would have been a fright though...

Felt my eyes well up and fist clench when I read that ; ) As far as shipping is concerned, believe me I'm used to it..It's not even the USPS / UPS charges, they're surprisingly reasonable from the US to UK, it's our extortionist government taxing the crap out of all that comes through that is the killer. Literally they slap 30% of what ever total is on the box. My only choice is to plead to sellers to mark the value as low as possible, to little avail.

After turning the new repro drums and mating them with new shoes and cylinders, I did a 1000 mile return journey to a music festival in France which bed things in nicely. By the end of that journey I had very nice smooth feeling brakes so couldn't be happier really. Comes to a nice straight stop from highways speeds with little effort, surprisingly good for the weight of the car and the age of technology. Would of been of bonus to have Ford drums though yes, but just to say it can be done with repro drums too. Said journey:









Sorry to digress..! It was a pretty good bird related road trip

[Alan H. Tast]

Elliot: out of curiosity, why did you paint the drums grey when they were originally painted with chassis black to hide them, especially since you've got wire wheels to contend with?

[eb88]

I tried out a number of finishes of the drums, powder coating and even zinc plating (obviously not on the braking surface) the latter looked great but didn't turn out too good,



but I understand the OFS states 'Cast Iron' ? That's what they currently are, most of my photos are all work in progress shots, like the one above was a hi temp primer before I painted with POR15 High Temp Grey

[60fore]

Thanks for posting those pics Elliot, I like seeing old American iron in "continental" settings.

How long does the trip thru the "Chunnel" take?

ps. Your coolant temp is running pretty high

[Karl]

G'day,
Just to add my two bob's worth, as far as having to turn the new drums I don't think it is because of the lack of tolerance weather they are made in China or elsewhere. I believe it is to make the drum run true to the axle because the drum will fit loosely over the studs.
As far as I am aware of, in the 60's when you purchased a new drum you also got a new hub which was fixed to the drum by burring over the wheel studs, which had been machined by Ford to make the drum run true.
Maybe somebody else can verify or state otherwise !!!!
Karl

[eb88]

Pleasure! Euro Tunnel takes about a half hour, drive on drive off from the port of Folkestone to Calais, although it isn't without its problems (http://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=calais)

The French highways were littered with new mustangs etc and yes, that was before my engine rebuild..it was also about 30oC that week. Didn't over heat once mind you even in 45 minutes of crawling traffic in the mid day sun, which also explains the horrific tan lines haha

And my old hubs wern't 'attached' to the new drums like Ford did when new and they're absolutely fine?

[RAVEN]

FlyingThermals, Please keep your old drums, I have an idea to investigate and would like to try it on a set of oversized units. Thanks Wally K PS If you are willing to part with them.

[flyinthermals]

Well the brake rebuild was a success. I had my backing plates welded up to fill in the grooves. I wish I had taken a picture first to post here. A friend said he had never seen so many grooves. That had to be a factor in the pulling. I also installed new springs. They were tough to get on. As a few people mentioned here, my return springs may be tired. They were not near as strong or tight as the new ones and definitely tired. I also found a small leak in the master brake cylinder while adjusting the piston rod in the booster. Inside the master was a half-inch of crud at the bottom. I cannot believe that the brakes were properly flushed out when I had a shop do that 2 years ago. And after that flush another shop had installed my rebuilt booster and done my brakes. You think they would have looked inside the master and cleaned it out. Too much effort I guess. I also found a set of original asbestos shoes for the fronts. The shop that turned my new drums said they would be great to use but obviously be careful when servicing them. The date on the box and the logo on the shoes is 1972 (FOMOCO). I have also installed new wheel cylinders. There may have been a small leak in the passenger side. There was a cut in the rubber boot and a tiny amount of brake fluid behind the boot. They were not original so for $40.00 I figured I would just get new ones. The brakes are working great and the pull to the left is gone. There were so many things wrong with the brakes that it is a little hard to pinpoint exactly what caused the brake issues. I hit all the problem areas so it looks like smooth stopping from now on. Thanks to all who gave me ideas and areas to look at. I learned a lot.

Cheers

[RAVEN]

Its all what the Forum is about. Take note, when servicing the brakes now, becareful of the dust generated and make sure you WASH the assemblies before ever blowing the dust out. THAT is when asbestos is dangerous, You can handle it anytime as long as you do not generate dust.