Well, let us know how it works out!
are you leaving the rear drums stock?
send me a message if you need any help getting it done.
Since you are going to be in there.. you are going to want to clean up and lube the whole brake pedal assembly and pivot as well.. They bind up and make a lot of noise. I did a lot of de-rusting, sanding, and polishing to make it smooth. Here are some pics of how the pedal assembly comes out, and how it all fits together.
Since you are doing an aftermarket bracket I would also recommend you check the resting pedal position as I did. You can see where I used masking tape to mark where the pedal was with the original bracket, booster, and master... and then I adjusted until it was the same with the new one.
Any experience with the Jamco Brake MC and booster conversion?
Moderator: redstangbob
Re: Any experience with the Jamco Brake MC and booster conversion?
Thanks for the great tips. Will do on de-rusting and refinishing the assembly, and I'll definitely contact you with questions.
Much to my surprise, my brake conversion kit arrived from California yesterday! Very quick shipping - it arrived on the 5th and I ordered it on the 2nd and live about 1200 - 1500 miles away. They obviously sent it out the day I ordered it. Shipping cost was $40.
There were some other surprises as well. I won't say positive necessarily, but they weren't exactly negative either. Neither the M/C or the booster or push rod look to be the same as in the pic in the catalog. The push rod and boot they sent look more like what came from the factory, so I'm actually kind of reassured about that. I was wondering about the interface of the new push rod with the exist. brake light switch, and now I'm pretty sure there won't be an issue.
Also, the booster they sent appears to be an 8" unit!! I was worried when I opened the box, but my measurements seem to indicate clearance won't be a problem with my valve covers..I'm VERY happy about that. So apparently they are of the same mind as ya'll on booster size, but it is slightly troubling that both the catalog and the two salespeople I talked to said it would be a 7" unit. I should say I'm measuring at the diameter of the largest round portion of the booster, and that's how I'm coming up with 8". If I'm wrong let me know. Brackets measure correctly, with proper spacing for bolts.
The M/C looks more or less like a conventional dual reservoir like on most of the old late 60's/early 70's cars I've had. Not like the one in the picture. However, my measurements tell me - at this point - it'll fit ok with the shock tower brace (which is removed at this point. ) No cutting necessary.
Two other odd things: No instructions included, other than a very very brief sheet on the proportioning valve included. The sales guy said there would be instructions. AND, the entire kit came completely assembled - all one piece, even the proportioning valve and tubing to it is connected.
All of this is slightly disconcerting...as I said, I don't really like dealing with unknowns on this kind of stuff. I'll call them on Monday just to make sure we're on the same page...that the correct items were sent.
Much to my surprise, my brake conversion kit arrived from California yesterday! Very quick shipping - it arrived on the 5th and I ordered it on the 2nd and live about 1200 - 1500 miles away. They obviously sent it out the day I ordered it. Shipping cost was $40.
There were some other surprises as well. I won't say positive necessarily, but they weren't exactly negative either. Neither the M/C or the booster or push rod look to be the same as in the pic in the catalog. The push rod and boot they sent look more like what came from the factory, so I'm actually kind of reassured about that. I was wondering about the interface of the new push rod with the exist. brake light switch, and now I'm pretty sure there won't be an issue.
Also, the booster they sent appears to be an 8" unit!! I was worried when I opened the box, but my measurements seem to indicate clearance won't be a problem with my valve covers..I'm VERY happy about that. So apparently they are of the same mind as ya'll on booster size, but it is slightly troubling that both the catalog and the two salespeople I talked to said it would be a 7" unit. I should say I'm measuring at the diameter of the largest round portion of the booster, and that's how I'm coming up with 8". If I'm wrong let me know. Brackets measure correctly, with proper spacing for bolts.
The M/C looks more or less like a conventional dual reservoir like on most of the old late 60's/early 70's cars I've had. Not like the one in the picture. However, my measurements tell me - at this point - it'll fit ok with the shock tower brace (which is removed at this point. ) No cutting necessary.
Two other odd things: No instructions included, other than a very very brief sheet on the proportioning valve included. The sales guy said there would be instructions. AND, the entire kit came completely assembled - all one piece, even the proportioning valve and tubing to it is connected.
All of this is slightly disconcerting...as I said, I don't really like dealing with unknowns on this kind of stuff. I'll call them on Monday just to make sure we're on the same page...that the correct items were sent.
Re: Any experience with the Jamco Brake MC and booster conversion?
OK, a little problem getting my brake line ready for installation, but I got it figured out. Can't figure out why it was so hard to figure out the last time I looked at it?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Re: Any experience with the Jamco Brake MC and booster conversion?
Just looking at there catalogue it looks like everything comes with an 8 inch booster except the 65-66 version which is 7 inch.
Re: Any experience with the Jamco Brake MC and booster conversion?
OK, I talked to ABS yesterday and got some clarifications from them. Thought I'd pass along the info to you.
First, it seems I'm wrong in presuming that the diaphragm size can be determined by measuring the largest diameter of the booster (according to ABS.) The diameter of this booster at its widest is just a tad over 8 inches, but apparently this is the 7 inch dual diaphragm unit they advertised in the catalog. It looks like the one in the catalog, but it just didn't have the dimensions I was expecting.
With that in mind, I did put the whole assembly physically into place and it seemed to fit...nicely, in fact. Kind of surprised about this given the more conventional size of the M/C. ABS said the M/C was the one they are using for this application now. And the whole assembly can be installed as one unit, as ABS intended. You might need a second person to help guide the push rod through existing firewall penetration. Also, you may have difficulty if trying to install the entire assembly with the shock tower brace in place. (Or maybe not...I can't say for sure.)
The top of the booster extends slightly above the lower cowl shelf (where the cowl seams to the firewall.) No problem there, though, as it seems there's good clearance between the top of the booster and the inside of the hood. The shelf extends a bit beyond the firewall, but the back of the booster in the ABS assembly clears the front edge of the shelf by a little more than 1/8 inch when installed.
As I said earlier, the M/C clears the shock tower brace by a good amount when installed, but when I fitted things today I was a little concerned that swinging latch/catch/whatever on the top of the M/C may not clear the brace when removing the M/C lid. No problem when I tried it, though (with brace temporarily installed) - the swinging latch misses the brace by about 1/4" or so.
So some of the clearances are a bit close, but definitely adequate, which leads me to believe that ABS did their homework in this regard. The close clearances don't seem to impede the installation of the kit as a complete single assembly too much, which makes things easy. The only close clearance I'd be concerned about at this point would be the preinstalled line running from the M/C to the proportioning valve, which is tucked just under the M/C. The clearance between the line and my valve cover is 1/8" or maybe less when installed - I don't know if such close proximity to engine heat will adversely affect brake fluid performance. I may adjust things to accommodate. Here's a pic of the unit I received:
First, it seems I'm wrong in presuming that the diaphragm size can be determined by measuring the largest diameter of the booster (according to ABS.) The diameter of this booster at its widest is just a tad over 8 inches, but apparently this is the 7 inch dual diaphragm unit they advertised in the catalog. It looks like the one in the catalog, but it just didn't have the dimensions I was expecting.
With that in mind, I did put the whole assembly physically into place and it seemed to fit...nicely, in fact. Kind of surprised about this given the more conventional size of the M/C. ABS said the M/C was the one they are using for this application now. And the whole assembly can be installed as one unit, as ABS intended. You might need a second person to help guide the push rod through existing firewall penetration. Also, you may have difficulty if trying to install the entire assembly with the shock tower brace in place. (Or maybe not...I can't say for sure.)
The top of the booster extends slightly above the lower cowl shelf (where the cowl seams to the firewall.) No problem there, though, as it seems there's good clearance between the top of the booster and the inside of the hood. The shelf extends a bit beyond the firewall, but the back of the booster in the ABS assembly clears the front edge of the shelf by a little more than 1/8 inch when installed.
As I said earlier, the M/C clears the shock tower brace by a good amount when installed, but when I fitted things today I was a little concerned that swinging latch/catch/whatever on the top of the M/C may not clear the brace when removing the M/C lid. No problem when I tried it, though (with brace temporarily installed) - the swinging latch misses the brace by about 1/4" or so.
So some of the clearances are a bit close, but definitely adequate, which leads me to believe that ABS did their homework in this regard. The close clearances don't seem to impede the installation of the kit as a complete single assembly too much, which makes things easy. The only close clearance I'd be concerned about at this point would be the preinstalled line running from the M/C to the proportioning valve, which is tucked just under the M/C. The clearance between the line and my valve cover is 1/8" or maybe less when installed - I don't know if such close proximity to engine heat will adversely affect brake fluid performance. I may adjust things to accommodate. Here's a pic of the unit I received:
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johnnytheg
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:22 pm
Re: Any experience with the Jamco Brake MC and booster conversion?
Any updates on the performance of the new booster/MC? I'm thinking of getting this ABS unit, but wanted to make sure there were no issues.
Re: Any experience with the Jamco Brake MC and booster conversion?
Johnnytheg, I'm very sorry I didn't follow up on the brake mc conversion and booster from ABS. I don't frequent the modified forum very often, and I've been involved in other things.
I DID get the ABS brake conversion installed in my '65 Landau. The MC and booster they sent fit into my engine bay pretty well without any conflict with - or modification of - the driver side shock tower brace. Also, the vacuum booster was physically small enough to not interfere with somewhat larger-than-original Ansen valve covers I installed at about the same time. (The original factory booster did not fit with these valve covers...it was too big in diameter to work.) ABS sent their own proportioning valve with the conversion, but I don't know who it's made by. The proportioning valve was mounted underneath the master cylinder, being held in its position only by the rigidity of the brake lines connecting it to the master cylinder. I didn't really like that as it didn't seem solid, so I made a bracket to mount it on, and attached that bracket to one of the master culinder mounting stud. Hope that makes sense. Seems solidly enough mounted now.
I hooked everything up with the front calipers that were on the car. The car stopped well, and I felt confident in the stopping power of the brakes, but I had a "low pedal" with this braking system. According to the shop manual, the brake pedal should stop about halfway between its uppermost position and the floor beneath the pedal. It's been a while since I've driven the car, but I'd say the pedal goes down to maybe half an inch above the floor below the pedal. I don't feel comfortable with that, even though the car seems to stop okay. (Maybe I need to bleed the brakes again ?? I've already done it a couple of times.)
I took the existing calipers off and noticed some unusual uneven wear on the pads, so I replaced the calipers and pads (with new units from Pat Wilson's) but it didn't improve the low pedal. I SHOULD MENTION THAT THE CAR HAD A LOW PEDAL WITH THE ORIGINAL BOOSTER< MASTER CYLINDER AND PROPORTIONING VALVE THAT WERE ON THE CAR WHEN I BOUGHT IT, for what it's worth.
So that's the final issue to resolve with the conversion with ABS. I called them and they didn't have any insights or suggestions other than finding a way to raise the pedal somehow so the end of the pedal travel would be higher off the floor. That didn't seem like such a hot idea to me. Other than that, though, the unit seems to be functioning well and consistently.
I DID get the ABS brake conversion installed in my '65 Landau. The MC and booster they sent fit into my engine bay pretty well without any conflict with - or modification of - the driver side shock tower brace. Also, the vacuum booster was physically small enough to not interfere with somewhat larger-than-original Ansen valve covers I installed at about the same time. (The original factory booster did not fit with these valve covers...it was too big in diameter to work.) ABS sent their own proportioning valve with the conversion, but I don't know who it's made by. The proportioning valve was mounted underneath the master cylinder, being held in its position only by the rigidity of the brake lines connecting it to the master cylinder. I didn't really like that as it didn't seem solid, so I made a bracket to mount it on, and attached that bracket to one of the master culinder mounting stud. Hope that makes sense. Seems solidly enough mounted now.
I hooked everything up with the front calipers that were on the car. The car stopped well, and I felt confident in the stopping power of the brakes, but I had a "low pedal" with this braking system. According to the shop manual, the brake pedal should stop about halfway between its uppermost position and the floor beneath the pedal. It's been a while since I've driven the car, but I'd say the pedal goes down to maybe half an inch above the floor below the pedal. I don't feel comfortable with that, even though the car seems to stop okay. (Maybe I need to bleed the brakes again ?? I've already done it a couple of times.)
I took the existing calipers off and noticed some unusual uneven wear on the pads, so I replaced the calipers and pads (with new units from Pat Wilson's) but it didn't improve the low pedal. I SHOULD MENTION THAT THE CAR HAD A LOW PEDAL WITH THE ORIGINAL BOOSTER< MASTER CYLINDER AND PROPORTIONING VALVE THAT WERE ON THE CAR WHEN I BOUGHT IT, for what it's worth.
So that's the final issue to resolve with the conversion with ABS. I called them and they didn't have any insights or suggestions other than finding a way to raise the pedal somehow so the end of the pedal travel would be higher off the floor. That didn't seem like such a hot idea to me. Other than that, though, the unit seems to be functioning well and consistently.
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johnnytheg
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:22 pm
Re: Any experience with the Jamco Brake MC and booster conversion?
No worries on the delayed response. Sounds like the conversion was almost a full success. The brake pedal travel issue seems odd. I wonder if anyone else has had this experience?
Re: Any experience with the Jamco Brake MC and booster conversion?
I can't think of very many things that would make the pedal low. 3 or 4 come to mind.
1. The pushrod adjustment between the brake booster and master cyl. It shouldn't have any pressure on the master cyl. but there also shouldn't be any play. I would not expect this adjustment to be correct just because they sent it as a kit.
2. The big one is the pushrod adjustment between the booster and the brake pedal lever arm. This is the main adjustment. And there is the possibility that the one that came with the kit was too short. Mine was too long, and I had to cut it.
3. Very small detail, but the bushing that goes between the pedal and bracket. If it is missing it will drop slightly.
4. I'm sure this one is addressed already... but the brakes being thoroughly bled. Keeping in mind that if the pushrod between the booster and master cyl isn't adjusted correctly you will never be able to bleed them correctly.
1. The pushrod adjustment between the brake booster and master cyl. It shouldn't have any pressure on the master cyl. but there also shouldn't be any play. I would not expect this adjustment to be correct just because they sent it as a kit.
2. The big one is the pushrod adjustment between the booster and the brake pedal lever arm. This is the main adjustment. And there is the possibility that the one that came with the kit was too short. Mine was too long, and I had to cut it.
3. Very small detail, but the bushing that goes between the pedal and bracket. If it is missing it will drop slightly.
4. I'm sure this one is addressed already... but the brakes being thoroughly bled. Keeping in mind that if the pushrod between the booster and master cyl isn't adjusted correctly you will never be able to bleed them correctly.
Re: Any experience with the Jamco Brake MC and booster conversion?
Thanks a bunch for the input dgalietti. I've been sidetracked from the Thunderbird and need to get back on it. This gives me some more concrete things to investigate. I'm sure the low pedal issue is fixable.
Re: Any experience with the Jamco Brake MC and booster conversion?
Just checking in here for any updates. Were you able to get a higher pedal? Did you adjust the rear brakes tighter? Might help to get a higher pedal.
Re: Any experience with the Jamco Brake MC and booster conversion?
Sorry I've been slow with updates, GRNTHNDR and others. I've been so sidetracked with other things that I haven't been able to focus on the T-Bird brake project for a few months now. It doesn't help that I've got a couple of other classic/vintage cars that I work on, too. I haven't addressed getting a higher pedal yet (beyond re-bleeding the brakes.) I think that a rear brake adj. like you mentioned is a good place to start. The rear shoes have a bit of wear on them (I took the rear drums off when I was doing the project to re-engage the partially disconnected emergency brake) so I could probably replace the rear shoes, as almost all the other components in the brake system are new. If that doesn't do it, I'm going to take the car into a restoration/street rod place and see what they can do. I do refurbishment instead of restoration because that's about the limit of what I'm capable of and can afford.
It's possible that the conversion was designed by ABS with too short of a pedal-to-master-cylinder rod, but I can't tell by just comparing the original rod with the conversion rod, as the conversion uses a different master cylinder so it's like comparing apples to oranges. Human error (me) is what I suspect though. I'll get back on the project in the next few weeks and keep you updated.
It's possible that the conversion was designed by ABS with too short of a pedal-to-master-cylinder rod, but I can't tell by just comparing the original rod with the conversion rod, as the conversion uses a different master cylinder so it's like comparing apples to oranges. Human error (me) is what I suspect though. I'll get back on the project in the next few weeks and keep you updated.
Re: Any experience with the Jamco Brake MC and booster conversion?
Does anyone know the bore size of the master cylinders on these units. If it's 1" then that could be the reason for the low pedal. There is a correlation between the master bore size and the wheel cylinder bore size. Can't remember which way it works but that could be the problem. Although I would think a good brake shop should know this.