Clarification on motor/trans pull EDIT followup on pull both ways, photos

[RAVEN]

Randy, as you know, if and when you plan to do a pull on your car, you can give me a call, and I will gladly give you a hand.
I am pretty sure you have it under control, but and extra pair makes things go easier.

If Paul was closer, I would do the same.

Wally

[sseebart]

Although it requires a dedicated person to video and may not be at the top of this list for this event, sure would be interesting to have it YouTubed for the benefit of those of us who will possibly be facing the same job in the future. So much excellent advice on this forum to add commentary to the video.....just saying.

I've pulled mine twice and grateful for the fact that the experience is not memorialized on YouTube.

~Steve

[rzcrisis]

Thanks Wally for the offer of help when needed.

Steve....I hear you ........saw a sign in a shop not long ago that sums it up:

Hourly Shop Rates

$50.00 per hour

$75.00 per hour if you watch

$100.00 per hour if you help

$150.00 per hour if you tried once and couldn't

[RAVEN]

Randy, do not put ideas in my mind! I might take them up!!!!!!!
It's what friends are for, I think, maybe, possibly, I really do not know LOL.


Hey Paul HOW U DOIN. EH!

[paulr]

Randy, do not put ideas in my mind! I might take them up!!!!!!!
It's what friends are for, I think, maybe, possibly, I really do not know LOL.


Hey Paul HOW U DOIN. EH!

Since I lost my trusty helper due to injury, it'll be a few days before I can get another I can trust. I spent the day separating engine from transmission, getting down the drive shaft, starter, etc, and I'll taking both out separately the standard way. But, stay tuned like I said. In a month I'll have a '65 in the garage and I plan to try the one-piece pull on that one, assuming talent is available to help.

rzcrisis wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:41 pm
Although it requires a dedicated person to video and may not be at the top of this list for this event, sure would be interesting to have it YouTubed for the benefit of those of us who will possibly be facing the same job in the future. So much excellent advice on this forum to add commentary to the video.....just saying.

I've pulled mine twice and grateful for the fact that the experience is not memorialized on YouTube.

~Steve

@Randy, I'm probably too squeamish to try youtube, as well. I'll do my best to get photos and document details of the dual pull that could be useful.

[paulr]

OK, this is my side by side comparison of pulling motors and transmissions together and separately.

Last month I pulled my own '64 engine and trans separately. The 1/2 ton setting on the cherry picker treated the job like it was a feather. I left the front bumpers on the car. Separating the transmission from the motor under the car calls for a good deal more effort, particularly because I found out--due in large part to the huge '64 gearbox--one of the trans/engine connecting bolts on that side is just about impossible to wrench. Not even removing the booster/master assembly offers any help. I've been told that some repair shops will leave that bolt off once their work is done; it's easy to see why. When I reinstall things, I'm planning to install the assembled engine/trans because of this. Lifting the engine high enough to clear is very easy probably in even the lowest ceiling garage. The big drawback to this method is lowering the detached transmission to the floor gracefully, getting the car high enough to slide it out sideways, and doing it all without any sudden drops. A garage with a lift would be the answer if you have one. The transmission likes to roll so you need somebody on each side under the car. I had a helper, and we felt like real amateurs. We were.

Today I pulled the engine/trans assembly from my '65 donor car. Prep time was a little quicker because of the experience plus I didn't have to separate the transmission. A very cool engineering improvement I discovered the '65 has is the much smaller streamlined gearbox. This creates a lot more room for you to manage a wrench and a hand to swing it with when reaching those tight trans bolts. Lucky '65+ owners. (I still had to get up in there because the throttle and shift linkage is secured to the transmission with those same bolts and they have to all be removed for this job). I did this job outside because my garage is now filled with disassembled '64 parts everywhere but, you can do this in any 8' tall ceiling garage (barely). The crane at full height tops out at about 92" in the 1T setting.
Nice day for a pull. Car is on the ground. Transmission is supported by wood blocks, engine resting on mounts, not secured. The front bumpers are removed necessarily to get the picker in close enough.

For engine + transmission put your crane on 1 Ton.

Use your instinct to inch forward and upward and adjust your tilt gently as you go. There's some trial and error. My fears of the transmission tail touching the floor or the suspension centerlink were for nothing. It never comes close to colliding with anything.

Finally, you'll steepen your angle to clear the front apron. Unwisely, I chose not to remove the engine damper (balancer); next time I will. You should.

At the high point you have to level the assembly to clear the transmission. This takes a strong back. You're gonna stand somewhere up on the car and use both arms to steady and crank the leveler. This was the hardest part.

All clear! Use caution at this point. The slightest motion and this thing likes to twirl and swing around. Plan your descent and use excessive caution.

My bottom line: I will always choose to do a combined pull after having done it both ways now. Without a lift in my garage, lowering a transmission just a few inches to the ground nicely with a car overhead is beyond awkward, messy, and scary. The other way, a decent quality picker and lots of careful prep, and slow methodical movements is much simpler. JMHO.

[RedBird64]

Nice work and great write-up Paul.
Keep me in mind if you need an extra set of hands putting this puzzle back together.
(You'd have to get the restraining order lifted, of course)

S

[tbird]

Paul
I have always done them as a set took a COM transmission out of my 59 Ford retractable hardtop by its self once on the floor would never do that again either they have cast iron bell housings and are they heavy to handle on your back. Bought a low rider trans jack before we tried to put it back in.

[sseebart]

Nicely done, Paul! You make it look easy and routine.

Are you going to transplant both the motor and transmission in your car? If not, I'd be curious to see how you go about separating the two (then marrying up the other pair).

Also, where did you get that box of nitrile gloves? I've been using the crappy "examination gloves" from Costco, and I need something (in bulk) that's resistant to acetone, etc.

~Steve

[paulr]

Are you going to transplant both the motor and transmission in your car? If not, I'd be curious to see how you go about separating the two (then marrying up the other pair).

Also, where did you get that box of nitrile gloves? I've been using the crappy "examination gloves" from Costco, and I need something (in bulk) that's resistant to acetone, etc.

~Steve

Haven't decided about the transmission yet. Turns out mine is original to the car, or, original to the year. Both transmissions have leak issues to be dealt with. If I use the '64 transmission with the '65 motor I don't foresee any issues. Separation won't be an issue; the assembly is currently resting on two dollies. I'll support the engine with the crane while I unbolt the trans so I can get a look at the torque converter and think about life and that weird blue paint.

As for the gloves pictured above can you say Cash n Carry? So, they're ok, average; made for standard NSF food grade.
But the really good ones come from a local specialty hardware vendor (called Tacoma Screw) who private labels some products of their own so, I don't know who makes them. They're 6 mil, so they're tougher, a bit more expensive but worth it. Remember, be a good boy. Santa's watching.

[rzcrisis]

Great pics and write up Paul. When I do decide to pull my 64 390/COM, I will take your advice and look at a combined pull going slow and sure. Good info on the picker setting. As I am reading your write up I am appreciating my easy recent experience with a picker and an inline 6 cylinder from a Falcon. Much different situation for sure!

One question: why did you remove the valve covers? Protection from damage or other?

Good luck with the reinstall and let us know if you will do the combination or separate scenarios.

Cheers
Randy

[paulr]

One question: why did you remove the valve covers? Protection from damage or other?

Good luck with the reinstall and let us know if you will do the combination or separate scenarios.

Cheers
Randy

Valve covers are very thin skinned and these were so nice, if I end us choosing to use them, I didn't want to have to replace them because of a gouge. Maybe to protect the rocker assemblies it would be a good idea to cover them with sacrificial valve covers.

I'll definitely install a combined assembly. The helper's job guiding the nose in is not a heavy job and the picker makes it pretty simple.

RAVEN: thanks for the pro tips via PM that made a lot of difference, which I wouldn't have known otherwise. Thanks to Art also for great advice.

[RAVEN]

To all, each of us have our own way of engine/tranny removal. Me, I prefer to do the SPLIT method. Reasons; more control with the engine hoist (trolly jack/ A frame lift/ what ever term you wish to use) when the motor is above the engine bay, and you go to move it, the centre of balance is "up there". Uneven ground is a killer. If you are able to roll the car out from under the hoist/motor/tranny combo, that is fine, but if the hoist has to move. PLEASE BE CAREFUL.

I have never really had difficulty pulling the tranny from under a car, just a little time spent jacking the car up for clearance.

Paul, glad all went well.

[scumdog]

Paul, if the game plan has changed to pull the motor separate, I recommend to leave the car only marginally off the ground till motor is out. Then raise the old girl to remove the tranny and drag it out.
Also be aware of the tranny cooler lines as they pass under the motor, when you lift it out, they can hook on the motor oil pan and get torn up. I have seen it happen. (Just a little hint)
There are other tricks like making sure to pull the torq Vetter as soon as the motor is out to prevent damage to the front seal also.

A trick I've used is to put bare rims on the front of cars to get the front low enough to get a motor over the radiator support, the car can still be rolled to move it from under the motor if the cherry picker has 'square' wheels.

[paulr]

A trick I've used is to put bare rims on the front of cars to get the front low enough to get a motor over the radiator support, the car can still be rolled to move it from under the motor if the cherry picker has 'square' wheels.

It's pretty interesting that I failed to give height any thought beforehand and still got lucky. Either with or without a transmission stuck on the back of the engine this op clears the apron easily with a Tbird sitting on four tires. The double pull was whisker close; don't forget the second you lift the combined weight off the motor mounts, the front end raises by a few inches--can't say exactly how much.

And yeah, by all means, hold the engine up there and just roll the car back a bit, then lower in place. Why take unnecessary chances.