Power Steering Fluid

This area is for posting questions/information concerning 1961-63 year Thunderbirds NO FOR SALE POSTINGS

Moderator: ABQTBird

stevegintn
Posts: 753
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Power Steering Fluid

Post by stevegintn »

Guys, a quickie - my power steering gearbox has been growling (but my car has not been driven for nearly a year).

When I pop the cover off the fluid reservoir (engine warm), the fluid looks like a milkshake - is that normal?
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N
Cliff Rankin
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:24 pm

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by Cliff Rankin »

For the most part NO. If the fluid is foaming you have air in the system and that will cause the whine. On an old car , ok I can see it for a short period if the car has been setting up. Fords are notorious for the whine But no , if
You are foaming you are sucking air somewhere. Turning
The wheel from lock to lock bleeds the air. Sometimes
Walking away grabbing a beer , letting things settle helps.
Also check the low side line. Hope that helps.
Cliff
Cliff Rankin
63 convertible
64 convertible
User avatar
RedBird64
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:42 pm
Location: Bothell Wa.

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by RedBird64 »

No, not normal at all.
I had some problems with mine. It was aerating the fluid and making noise when cold because of of a worn impeller in the PS pump (My fault -long story).
I flushed it and used a full synthetic Type F trans fluid by AMSoil and it solved all my problems. No foam and no noise!
Of course, if you have leak and it's sucking air, that will need to be fixed but mine was foamy without that issue and normal fluid would just foam again.

Scott
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 42 years. It was my folks car before that (second owners). VTCI # 12013.
stevegintn
Posts: 753
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by stevegintn »

Many thanks, Cliff & RedBird04 - so other than the 2 rubber hoses, where else should I check for leaks?
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N
MN63Tbird
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:38 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by MN63Tbird »

There was a post thread last August that also talked about noisy power steering. Check that out too. My experience with the groaning noise at low RPM when you just start out was due to cavitation of the power steering pump. Cavitation is when you suck in air into the system on the suction side of the pump. The air gets compressed and then explodes when it hits the pump impeller. That causes the groaning or growling noise. Check your fittings and hose on the suction side of the pump ( reservoir to pump) . I noticed foam in my reservoir after driving and that was the source of the noise.

In my case the source of the foam was not the fittings but the reservoir filter was plugged causing the return fluid to foam. Replacing the filter and allowing just a little of pressure relief at the top of the reservoir cured the noise. Note: if you remove the filter you can also experience foaming much like running a hose of water into a bucket. You see some aeration occurring as the force of the fluid hits the wall. Better to keep the filter than removing it. After you stop the car with air in the lines it will rise to the high points in the lines. That is why turning your steering wheel back and forth and turning on your windshield wipers (for 63 T birds) ensures all the air is flushed out with fresh fluid.

MN63
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code
MN63Tbird
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:38 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by MN63Tbird »

There was a post thread last August that also talked about noisy power steering. Check that out too. My experience with the groaning noise at low RPM when you just start out was due to cavitation of the power steering pump. Cavitation is when you suck in air into the system on the suction side of the pump. The air gets compressed and then explodes when it hits the pump impeller. That causes the groaning or growling noise. Check your fittings and hose on the suction side of the pump ( reservoir to pump) . I noticed foam in my reservoir after driving and that was the source of the noise.

In my case the source of the foam was not the fittings but the reservoir filter was plugged causing the return fluid to foam. Replacing the filter and allowing just a little of pressure relief at the top of the reservoir cured the noise. Note: if you remove the filter you can also experience foaming much like running a hose of water into a bucket. You see some aeration occurring as the force of the fluid hits the wall. Better to keep the filter than removing it. After you stop the car with air in the lines it will rise to the high points in the lines. That is why turning your steering wheel back and forth and turning on your windshield wipers (for 63 T birds) ensures all the air is flushed out with fresh fluid.

MN63
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code
stevegintn
Posts: 753
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by stevegintn »

MN63Tbird wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:14 pm There was a post thread last August that also talked about noisy power steering. Check that out too. My experience with the groaning noise at low RPM when you just start out was due to cavitation of the power steering pump. Cavitation is when you suck in air into the system on the suction side of the pump. The air gets compressed and then explodes when it hits the pump impeller. That causes the groaning or growling noise. Check your fittings and hose on the suction side of the pump ( reservoir to pump) . I noticed foam in my reservoir after driving and that was the source of the noise.

In my case the source of the foam was not the fittings but the reservoir filter was plugged causing the return fluid to foam. Replacing the filter and allowing just a little of pressure relief at the top of the reservoir cured the noise. Note: if you remove the filter you can also experience foaming much like running a hose of water into a bucket. You see some aeration occurring as the force of the fluid hits the wall. Better to keep the filter than removing it. After you stop the car with air in the lines it will rise to the high points in the lines. That is why turning your steering wheel back and forth and turning on your windshield wipers (for 63 T birds) ensures all the air is flushed out with fresh fluid.

MN63
Thanks, MN63 - I also found this great post, started by Karl
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10687&p=63468&hilit ... oir#p63468

I am not sure, but suspect that I have NO FILTER in my reservoir?
So, I will check that, and the reservoir cover seal. I did not see any visible leaks from the hose connections, so will try the simplest solution, first.

Here's that great reservoir assembly diagram from the thread I ref'd (1962 Shop Manual showed or said nothing about it)
PS_filter.png
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N
stevegintn
Posts: 753
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by stevegintn »

OK, just as I suspected - NO filter and NO lid seal o-ring (I can fix that)
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N
stevegintn
Posts: 753
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by stevegintn »

A couple more question about the reservoir filter ...

I ordered the cover seal yesterday from Mac's. They also have the filter, but not the spring or washers shown in the diagram above.
Where can I procure these?

Also, the retaining stud is offset from center - will the filter fit in the reservoir, if it's pulled to the side?
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N
tbird
Posts: 2586
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 11:07 pm
Location: Tyndall MB. Canada

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by tbird »

Steve

Karl has a 63 they had filters in them the 62 and earlier did not you do not have any of the parts to hold the filter in place.
Jim Mills
VTCI # 8071
VTCI 1964-66 Technical Editor
2002 Thunderbird
1965 Convertible
1962 Convertible (in progress)
1959 Ford Retractable HT
Many parts cars
MN63Tbird
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:38 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by MN63Tbird »

Steve, The 63 has a filter. The inlet to the filter from the return hose is designed to flow the power steering fluid through the filter. With no filter it will spray and cause foam. Once you get the filter from Macs you will see it is smaller in diameter than the reservoir. My car is still in storage now but if my memory is correct there is about a half inch gap between the filter and the reservoir wall. Being off center should not be an issue. The spring is just to provide tension to hold the filter in place. There is enough tension so that you need to hold the reservoir lid down with one hand and put the wing nut on with the other. In a pinch you probably can find one that will work at Home Depot, Lowe's or whatever hardware store is near you. There is a little grommet that fits on the lid that is special but the other washers I believe are stock hardware items. You will need to fill the reservoir with power steering fluid to cover the filter.

MN63
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
1966 Mustang Coupe A code
stevegintn
Posts: 753
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by stevegintn »

tbird wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:59 pm Steve

Karl has a 63 they had filters in them the 62 and earlier did not you do not have any of the parts to hold the filter in place.
Thanks, Jim! (that explains why I could not find it in the Shop Manual)
Steve G.
'62 TBird HT
'61 TBird HT (parts car)
'88 Ranger XLT
'02 Sportrac 4x4
2012 Dodge RAM 4x4
'49 Ford 8N
Aaron65
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:48 pm

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by Aaron65 »

I can attest that a '63 will growl without a filter...mine did until I installed one.
1963 T-Bird Hardtop
1965 Mustang
1965 Skylark
1965 Corvair Monza
1965 Dodge Dart wagon
1953 Buick Special Riviera
1974 Firebird Esprit
ICON 1956
Posts: 2545
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:11 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by ICON 1956 »

When I had my 61 the power steering only growled softly when I would make a turn...
1956 Thunderbird Sage Green
1953 Ford Custom Liner Hot Rod With Flat 8 Motor with Henderson three 2 barrel Carbs
VTCI Member # 12309
User avatar
Karl
Posts: 993
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:03 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Power Steering Fluid

Post by Karl »

G'day,
Reading through this thread it seems that the filter may only be there to stop the foaming of the oil.
Some time ago I purchased a remote reservoir for my 63. My car has a 66 engine and no air conditioning, so I purchased a 63 engine close to the correct date with air conditioning as the car had all the evaporator and controls in the dash.
I cleaned it up reservoir, painted it and fitted a new filter. On assembling all the parts I noticed that the pressed metal plate that supports the filter and the small diameter pipe that goes into this pressed metal plate had nothing to seal the oil. So the oil could bypass the filter. Unlike the oil filter that is in the engine, this system is not 100 % filtered. I thought I was either missing some parts or the oil didn't need the same filtering as the engine.
So now I'm thinking that the primary role for the filter is to stop aeration of the oil and secondary is the filtering.

Any thoughts on this?

Karl.
1963 Thunderbird Hardtop
Post Reply