Electronic Component Upgrades

[66Resto]

I am working on a 1966 TBird, a Restoration job for a customer of mine and I am looking to update a few of the old vacuum operated components to electronic. I would like to replace all vacuum operated systems with electronic circuits, electronic wipers, electronic heating and ac controls, ext... Has anyone done this before? If so, what companies did you go through to purchase the components? Also, are these kits specific replacements for the vehicle or are they universal kits? I would like to stay away from anything universal. Any help or advise anyone might be able to offer would be much appreciated. Thank you.

[stubbie]

I don't think you will find electric wipers as no one makes an aftermarket kit for a Tbird. As for heating you could look at Speedy Air Spares I think they have electric heaters and you may find AC there also. If not Google 12volt heaters.https://www.my12voltstore.com/12_Volt_Heaters_s/76.htm.
I just remembered you can replace the air powered door lock with something like this http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayIS ... 1000&ver=0

[jtschug]

I think this should be in the 'modified' section

[jtschug]

The wipers are not vacuum, they are hydraulic, so I'm not sure if that factors into it.

For the heat and A/C controls, do you want to retain the original control head and adapt it to electric, or use another control head?

I have ideas on how to convert power locks to electric, but the heat and A/C controls will require some engineering and 'smart' electronics to make it work. I designed A/C systems for Ford for almost 10 years, so I know how this system is supposed to work, and I know exactly how modern fully electronic systems work. When I started doing engineering on automotive HVAC in 1999, some vehicles still used vacuum: Mustang, Explorer, Ranger, Crown Vic. By the time I moved on to a new job in 2008, everything had converted over to electronic. Electronic control heads are programmed to function with the car they are in, and the HVAC unit is designed to fit between the dash and the firewall. The way the 64-66 A HVAC works is very different from how a modern electronic HVAC works in terms of how many doors need to open and close and how air is mixed for various modes. You will not find an off-the-shelf or universal controller that would work properly with this HVAC out of the box, it would need to be programmed.

If you are very good at electronics and fabrication, you could probably build something that would work, but you would be building the very first one of its kind and it would only work for 64-66 T-birds. This would be ground breaking, but it isn't going to get much love at a car show I'm afraid. As someone who designed literally millions of systems out on the road, it is very humbling to know that most drivers just care if it has A/C yes or no. There is no appreciation for the elegance or effort that went into the design and engineering.

[paulr]

I would like to replace all vacuum operated systems with electronic circuits, electronic wipers, electronic heating and ac controls,

Just a hypothetical.
If you'll consider an HVAC resto instead be assured that every component on the system with the exception of one (the vac-op compressor switch) can be fully restored to new condition or replaced with new parts and even the above-mentioned switch is available used though in my experience not commonly compromised. A current popular mod involves using a rotary-type Sanden compressor which I've used and personally find no benefit over the aluminum York workhorse found in millions of vehicles.

More to the point, "reinventing the vacuum wheel" electronically will be a huge uphill battle and mean little if the plenum chamber doors all wheeze air through dried out neoprene linings which should have been replaced, flexible duct problems, a bad expansion valve, questionable 50+ year old hoses, etc. You see the point. These things will require a lot of work as well. Those little vacuum motors are available new; vac hoses are cheap. With all the proper work done and no detail overlooked (I'm speaking from experience) this system is as powerful and responsive as any modern car I've owned.

I guess you don't need a third person to say the hydraulic wiper/power steering integrated system would be a hurdle, but I'll say it.

[RedBird64]

Reinventing the wheel would be the wrong course of action IMHO. You'll go thorugh a ton of your customers money trying to engineer everything when simply replacing failed parts would get it working right.
Some things, like the wipers, work better than the simple two speed units out there because they are infinitely variable in speed, very quiet and work smoothly. They last a long time too - mine have never been touched and work perfect.
Keep the car true to itself and you'll have a satisfied customer.

Scott

[David Langhorne]

Agree with Scott and others. My vacuum motors and most of the hoses are original and still work well as do the wipers. After 54 years will your Chinese sourced electronic replacements still be going strong?

[RedBird64]

After 54 years will your Chinese sourced electronic replacements still be going strong?

Or 54 days for that matter

[Alan H. Tast]

Reinventing the wheel would be the wrong course of action IMHO. You'll go through a ton of your customers money trying to engineer everything when simply replacing failed parts would get it working right.
Some things, like the wipers, work better than the simple two speed units out there because they are infinitely variable in speed, very quiet and work smoothly. They last a long time too - mine have never been touched and work perfect.
Keep the car true to itself and you'll have a satisfied customer.

Scott

AMEN to this comment, especially the wipers.

The hydraulic wiper system's weak points are in the hoses/lines: replacing these if the rubber hose portion is aged and showing fatigue, or if the fittings are wonky, along with service adjustments per the shop manual and proper bleeding of air from the power steering pump, should resolve whatever issues are present.

Bringing something into the 21st century technology-wise, while it seems like a great idea and gives somebody bragging rights at the local cruise night, sometimes creates more 'unintended consequences' than sticking with tried-and-true systems engineered with slide rules, drafting machines on tables and good-old hands-on development. For fuel delivery and ignition I can understand it, but for the ventilation/heating/AC systems in these cars, if you want to spend a crap-ton of hours on it for the fun and challenge of it, someone better have a huge bankroll to pay for shop time, trial-and-error/remove-replace-remove again and replace again. There's a reason why some people consider it a hobby.

[jtschug]

I did have to clean the inside of my wiper pump this winter to get it working again. Lines were fine, air purge procedure run several times didn’t get them working again.

[66Resto]

Replace components with new one will be fine also, the customer just prefers everything electronic and modern, however given the expenses and time involved (and the fact that the original operations are very effective as they are) I think we'll continue by leaving things well enough alone. Thank you everyone.

[sseebart]

Replace components with new one will be fine also, the customer just prefers everything electronic and modern, however given the expenses and time involved (and the fact that the original operations are very effective as they are) I think we'll continue by leaving things well enough alone. Thank you everyone.

This may be old news to you, but some of the "new" reproduction parts for these cars are of questionable quality. Some are just not made to the standard of the original, others were designed to fit other, more popular models of the era and don't fit the Thunderbird well. Feel free to check back in with questions. Also, if you have a chance to post a few photos of the build in progress--well, we always like to see a t-bird coming back to life.

~Steve

[Rt.146]

Replace components with new one will be fine also, the customer just prefers everything electronic and modern, however given the expenses and time involved (and the fact that the original operations are very effective as they are) I think we'll continue by leaving things well enough alone. Thank you everyone.

This may be old news to you, but some of the "new" reproduction parts for these cars are of questionable quality. Some are just not made to the standard of the original, others were designed to fit other, more popular models of the era and don't fit the Thunderbird well. Feel free to check back in with questions. Also, if you have a chance to post a few photos of the build in progress--well, we always like to see a t-bird coming back to life.

~Steve

Caveat emptor, for sure, buying replacement parts

[paulr]

While I'm the first to exercise caution about overseas general repop parts based on a range of experiences from really good to really sour (i.e., Chinese starter solenoids), the OP's specific post was regarding AC. Most AC parts being sold new from vendors like Classic Auto Air or Vintage Air and others are manufactured in the US from strong industry sources like Eaton, for example. Hoses, service valves, expansion valves to name a few are the parts that matter and the reliability in the market on these parts is good. An exception would be the receiver/driers available now on Ebay which are all made in China but, being a disposable item that's easily changed out, it's not a major issue. I'm sure if someone looked hard enough some flimsy repop parts can still be found which is why I like doing this work myself. If that's not your thing, ask your mechanic to source from the vendors mentioned above.