1964 390cui vacuum canister

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don.piotrek
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1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by don.piotrek » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:59 am

Hi guys,

what is the main purpose for the vacuum canister found on the passenger inner fender under the hood? Is it AC only or some things more? I had some issues with the vacuum system, seemed that the canister has a leak, so I disconnected it. And now everything seems to work just fine...

Thanks.

Terry64HT
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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by Terry64HT » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:08 am

The vacuum provided by the engine is not constant and varies during acceleration or deceleration. The vacuum can is a reservoir with a one way valve at the port to the manifold so the suction to the controls remains constant. Things will usually work ok without the reservoir, just not as well.
Hope this helps
Terry
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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by RAVEN » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:16 am

Actually a MY64 can have TWO vac cans, depending on options installed on car, and body style.
You state an inner fender can, does your car have A/C? Also do you have a Conv Pack (vac door locks)?
You may need that canister.
Cars without A/C and Conv Pack do not need a "can" at all, with no effect to car vac systems. (vac modulation)
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don.piotrek
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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by don.piotrek » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:26 am

RAVEN wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:16 am
You state an inner fender can, does your car have A/C? Also do you have a Conv Pack (vac door locks)?
You may need that canister.
I assume my car has been modified over the years. How do I learn which were the original factory options? Something like Marti report for '64?
Under the hood I couldn't notice any of the A/C components. The switches in the interior indicate A/C however these might be universal for both A/C and non A/C?
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redstangbob
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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by redstangbob » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:08 am

your car has been modified to some extent, the master cylinder is not as original, but many owners opt for a dual circuit system. Your car appears to be an A/C car, but the compressor and base brkt have been removed. On the firewall you'll notice what looks like a black soup can, that is for the safety/convenience option that should be just under the clock pod. hope that helps, Bob C
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RAVEN
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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by RAVEN » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:45 pm

As Bob points out, you have both Vac Cans. Since your car appears to have had A/C in the past and it has been semi deleted, your choice of returning to original or leaving deleted is your choice.
At the moment with non functioning Air, you can ignore the reported leaking canister and leave it by-passed. The only issue will be that you will not have heater control, as it is vacuum operated.
The Vac can on the fire wall is for the Conv Pkg, but also supplies vac to rear vent on a hard top and emerg vac release.
Marti Works can provide some info via the Gate Release.
In the respect of learning the options of your car, did/have you found the ROT sheet? It can answer some questions also. It has been found in the car in various locations, like under the carpet, behind/under the back seat, or stuffed up into the headliner.
By looking at the VIN Data plate on the door can tell you where the car was scheduled to be shipped to, Ext colour, interior Trim type and colour. Maybe you already know this, but just added to make sure.
Good luck.
CDN Member since 1975 #2086
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paulr
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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by paulr » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:23 pm

RAVEN wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:45 pm
The only issue will be that you will not have heater control, as it is vacuum operated.
It always amazes me how far people will go to delete A/C. This car is also missing the whole condenser assembly, the A/C hoses, and the original power steering pump--it's got a later vintage Ford pump, so strange. It's notably an OEM air car because indicated also by the side shrouds on the radiator--something not put on heat-only cars.

@RAVEN, the car still has the original A/C-car specific heater hose routing. If the OP seals the leaky canister (or replaces it) and restores the correct vacuum routing, the TRV (assumed to be still in the dash) will allow the water valve to work, thus providing heater control. Correct?
Paul
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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by RAVEN » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:14 pm

In short yes, with all other items fully functional, and vac tight.
With canister missing, the vac would fluctuate do to engine manifold vac. Just as Terri stated in second post.
CDN Member since 1975 #2086
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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by redstangbob » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:48 pm

The Vac can on the fire wall is for the Conv Pkg, but also supplies vac to rear vent on a hard top and emerg vac release.
Actually Wally, the parking brake/rear vent is a separate hose, it enters low on the right side with a molded grommet integral to the hose. This is not part of the soup can, but it does start at the intake through the 'T' fitting.
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RAVEN
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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by RAVEN » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:35 pm

OOPS!
As years pass, owners change things and memory gets corrupted. I have seen where the soup can vac hose is tied into the rear vent/brake release line just ahead of the grommet. Based my comment on that memory.
These cars have varying vacuum routing and people change things over the years.
Thanks for the correction.
BTW, and based on the conditions of a H/T car, with Flo Thru vent, and brake release PLUS a Conv Pkg, where does the soup can vac hose route thru the firewall then?
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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by redstangbob » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:11 pm

As you've noted, there are several ways the hoses were routed, depending on the combination of options. An A/C car with the vacuum door locks should have two "T"s and a check valve not including the the "T" at the manifold. There is a grommet almost hidden by the soup can that would have three hoses on this car. One large hose is vacuum in from the can, one large hose is out to the heater valve, and the small line is supply to the A/C from the other can on the apron. There are several variations inside as well, depending on options. There is a rarely seen mini can used only on cars with no air and no door locks, but with vacuum trunk release. JMO Bob C
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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by tbird » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:01 pm

The juice or soup can come into play if the car has the convenience package which include vacuum door lock and needs to maintain a ready vacuum supply, it has a built in check valve on the can. The vacuum Canister on the front surface of the inner fender appears when the car has the air conditioning and has a inline check valve, the juice can is still used for the door locks. The mini. juice can is used if there is no vacuum storage available on the car and it has the power trunk option, I have seen one 65 with the trunk locks being the only option on the car other than an a AM radio.


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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by RedBird64 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:49 pm

In more common cars, a canister out of the circuit may allow the HVAC controls to revert to some other position (defrost in some cars) if the throttle is WOT for very long. Other than that it may not have any effect.
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don.piotrek
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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by don.piotrek » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:13 am

I think I have the safety/ convenience package. I have the flashers switch in the center console, the door ajar light and a switch on the left of this group that doesn't seem to work. Perhaps this is the central door lock and is missing the vacuum to operate?

As I am a purist and try to get each of my classic cars back to the condition as they left the factory, I would definitely try to get the A/C back.

Anyway thanks for clearing that. I am still trying to figure out the options on the car. The Marti reports don't go that far as to 1964. I decoded the VIN data plate, but it confirms only the correct year/ engine/ body and interior trim. I still haven't looked for the ROT, I am afraid to dismantle the interior in search for it. It is still in pretty good shape but not that good to dismantle and put it back together again.

64thunderbird64
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Re: 1964 390cui vacuum canister

Post by 64thunderbird64 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:11 am

This is a late reply, sorry.

while you cannot get a Marti Report for cars pre-1967. he does have the cars invoice, or gate release as they are called. This will show you everything a marti report will show you.

the gate release is Ford's original invoice. The inspector at the end of the line would go down the invoice to make sure the car's options, paint, trim all match what the gate release said.

these are available on his website for $55.

http://www.martiauto.com/originalinvoices.cfm

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