a/c hose replacement

[qside]

I am restoring a 1966 Thunderbird. The a/c compressor and clutch are shot. So I figured i would upgrade the system to R134a. . I bought a new drier canister already. Can I use my current hoses with just a new compressor and clutch? Or should I plan to replace the hoses too? IF so How to I get access to the hoses to remove them without removing the whole dash? I have looked on line and I am having difficulty visualizing the approach. any recommendations or help is welcome.

[jtschug]

You do not need to replace the hoses if they are in good shape. You will need to get the system flushed and make sure the oil is swapped to PAG or POE.

[qside]

Sorry if this sounds stupid. The a/c has been open to the environment for 5 years. I am replacing the drier, and compressor with new parts. Will there still be residual oil in the system (condensor, hoses or evaporator)? Or can I assume it left with when all the refrigerant leaked out?

If not, can I hook a vacuum to the system and remove the excess oil? Or is that to be done by a professional. The system was R12. Converting to R134a.
Thanks in advance

[jtschug]

An A/C shop will be able to run a fluid through it to clean out any residual oil which does not evaporate with the refrigerant. Also if you are getting a new York compressor the crankcase must be filled with an R134a compatible oil. Hopefully there is no debris in the system to clog the expansion valve. That is a pain to replace, but isn’t an expensive part.

[qside]

I was thinking of the sanden compressor setup. Any experience with that one?

[paulr]

Sanden aluminum rotary compressor is excellent; I’ve used one. Virtually plug and play with everything else being stock except mount which will take a little fabrication, if that’s what you want.

[qside]

But the people at classic air say that I need to change the hoses because the stock hoses wont fit the Sanden. There lies my dilemma: how do I get to the hoses without taking out the dash?

[Terry64HT]

I have put a Sanden-type compressor on my 64. You are right, both hose ends need to be changed, but there is enough length in the stock hoses to do it. You will need the proper ends and a way to crimp them. I bought a Mastercool crimping kit. Did a great job. Now I own it. Want a good deal on a Mastercool 71550 kit?
The adapter for the base plate mount is easily available.
Terry
64HT

[qside]

So where did you get the hose ends to crimp? I would prefer to just change the hoses, but i am having a hard time finding info on how to disconnect the hose without removing the dash

[Cliff Rankin]

While I can’t point out some of the detail work on on the
Thunderbird itself. The new style compressor is on my
64 that somebody else put in and works well. You can buy flush cheap and pour it in or use a can with air pressure.
I work on airport shuttles with the rear AC units. You do
Not have to buy the crimping tool. There should be other
Rebuilder shops like I have in my area who will fab them
For you. You can buy a splice or other end fitting and use a
Hose clamp style on the other end. I’m moving to these
Fittings on the buses because they hold up better. But I learned
The crimp and hose clamp fittings are just like what they
Used years ago.

[paulr]

But the people at classic air say that I need to change the hoses because the stock hoses wont fit the Sanden. There lies my dilemma: how do I get to the hoses without taking out the dash?

Ah, I see what you're asking. Yeah, OEM hoses don't go with Sanden w/o cutting and crimping. Terry's got skills (and tools) I don't have (read: jealous). I did overhaul my system which included pulling the dash, pulling the plenum and getting access to all the hose connections that are literally just back of the firewall. There is so much in the way, and so little room I can't conceive of how you'd remove those two hoses without the big removal, although I know back in the day, dealer techs did replace bad hoses "in-car". Musta been hell. The expansion valve is hard enough to change in-car (not removing dash, etc.) and you really should change that part--most likely part to have failed after many years.

I'll tell you, after a couple years with a Sanden system, I now have an original restored OEM system with an aluminum York--all stock, except r134 converted. I can't see any advantage to the Sanden situation; no complaints, it worked fine. I wanted the bay to look more like Detroit. I've done both the hard way. You should go whichever way involves the fewest new parts and the least amount of labor, especially if you're paying for labor. If you DIY, you save beaucoup $$, with which you can buy parts and more tools!

Here's a couple pics to scare you

[paulr]

This pic shows you your liquid line, low pressure hose, and expansion valve, none of which can be seen because right now they are all smothered in a black cork tape, which has to be removed first, and replaced afterwards. Just to give you a look at what's up there. Good luck.

[RAVEN]

I have heard of guys removing the front windshield valence panel, and cutting the upper firewall cowl panel and getting access to the top of the A/C plenum, to re/re expansion valve. This may give you access to the line fittings, without removing the dash.
I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS, for several reasons. They are 1) you are cutting blind 2) not sure if you will have success 3) you are cutting structural body. 4) I am a purist and do not like butcher hacks.
To each his own, but re/re dash allows you to verify vac lines, plenum seals, vac dampers, and other items which can give headaches later on when something else acts up. IN FOR A PENNY IN FOR A POUND. JMHO.

[paulr]

I have heard of guys removing the front windshield valence panel, and cutting the upper firewall cowl panel...

Wally, I've seen some lame hack jobs, but this is a new one. You talk about cutting blind...what can't be seen is the harness that is fastened to the inside of the firewall up behind the plenum that travels right next to the AC hose cutout. You miss your target by a centimeter and you now have a new electrical nightmare to correct. Youtube is full of videos of losers cutting up their cars because, ya know, they is sooo smart.

Your point about fixing everything from vacuum hoses to door operation to vac motors to seals, etc. is the grown-up approach. Buying one new compressor isn't going to restore a dusty old AC system by itself.

[RAVEN]

Let me rephrase that; I HAVE SEEN THIS DONE. They seal up the hole, and the outer Valance panel hides the patch. A little black paint down in the cavity hides the work.