head lights

[rrbnut]

the headlights, original, on my '65 Convertible are very dim at night, as I suspect they were back in 1965. What are good new alternatives for a switch out and that they can
be accepted for concours?? Thanks

[paulr]

This is likely a MOD-centric reply...move if needed.

Concours rules I can't speak about. Below is a picture of original headlights on the passenger side amended with headlight relays (the driver side lights are halogen + LED--likely NOT concours acceptable). The point is you can increase the voltage at the headlight with the use of relays allowing your originals to be as bright as they are rated. They're simply not getting the voltage they're rated for due to the inefficiency of the factory wiring scheme. Without relays your stock wiring is dropping your voltage down into the 11s by the time power gets to the headlights. With relays, at cruising rpm I have measured my voltage at the back of the headlight at 14.1 which is not possible otherwise.

This creates the potential concours-related problem of hiding the relays and associated wiring, but I've seen that done effectively. Mine are almost completely hidden from view, but if a judge pawed around they'd be found. I have a driver. I'd suggest considering the relay addition; a crafty installation could be invisible. Doesn't cost much. No matter how expensive new headlights are, the electricity won't be there to power them. Best of luck.


This is a halogen-only (no LED) shot at night. Someone else can say whether halogens are acceptable in concours judging.

[RAVEN]

For Concours judging halogen bulbs are a 1 point deduction as a modification. The original car had matched manufacture sealed beam lamps with etched or embossed FoMoCo logo. An acceptable replacement would be matched bulbs of Tung Sol/westinghouse/GE manufacture. Consider are you going for concours, if not then safety would answer your question and a retrofit bulb may be a way to go.

[rrbnut]

thanks guys, that really helps and I think I will go with the relay addition.

[RAVEN]

By the way Paul, did my method of wiring work for you or did you modify it. We never really conversed on the subject in past couple months?

[kevindeluca66]

Does anyone who has added relays to their headlights have a schematic and part #'s for how they did it? Also are you willing to share?

[OZZY Stewie]

Hi Kevin, I have two relays mounted on the front panel where the voltage regulator is located. I don't have a regulator as I have a self regulating alternator. I ran two power wires from a busbar (near starter solenoid, my mod) across in front of the radiator where wiring harness runs to the relays. Cut the headlight wires behind the left head light and connected them to the relays. That's batt power into relays and power out to lights. Third terminal on relay is a ground wire. The headlight wires coming from the headlight switch ( one from switch and one floor dipper switch ) now connect to each relay ( high beam and low beam) on forth terminal. You now have full batt power to headlights and minimal amps going thru light switch in dash. Less fire hazard and brighter lights.
Also up front I have a relay for ignition AND two relays for the tail lights. All up five relays. I also removed the tape on the right hand side harness on top of inner guard and fitted an ANL 30 AMP fuse and retaped the harness. I did this because I am paranoid about electrical fires I hope I explained this OK. I used Narva relays, not sure if there in the US but Bosch will do.
Regards, Stewie in OZZY Land

[tbird]

If you are concerned with being concours correct first thing to remember is that a VTCI judge can not touch your car only visually examine it and may ask you some questions on items that they can not see clearly.

Now having said that the relay systems and wiring that are being installed if they are concealed properly and can't be seen will not be noticed we don't take your apart.

Would suggest that you purchase the OFS From the Country Store on this web site if you are planning on showing your ca it will tell you what is correct for your car.

[kevindeluca66]

Thanks Stewie, that makes sense to me now. Now I have something else to add to the list of things to do. I'm sure the wife will be thrilled to hear the list is now 1 item longer.

[paulr]

By the way Paul, did my method of wiring work for you or did you modify it. We never really conversed on the subject in past couple months?

Wally, I lost track of that conversation we were having. Here's what happened: I cut into the red and greens about where the washer bag is mounted and installed two 20 AMP SPSTs (normally open) one for hi-beams, one for lows and mounted them behind the bag. I also have a third relay for the LED halos that I use for DRLs and it's mounted there as well; the switch for this is a tiny button that I mounted under the dash. All three are powered via 12ga AWG stranded wire with 30 amp fuses hidden behind the battery, and connected to the back of the alternator. All my connections are ferrule crimped, soldered and insulated with shrink wrap and the wiring is wrapped in black electrician's tape in the factory style and routed with the other harness where possible.

To avoid melting the plastic plugs with the super white H4 halogens, I converted the stock plugs to ceramic, but these are completely hidden.

If that was what you said to do, I did it. :-)

BTW, Dusty (Labor of Love) has done this same thing using HID http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net/p ... &start=360. I stayed with halogens because aftermarket HIDs get you pulled over in my town. He lives in Wonderland, I guess.

[OZZY Stewie]

Kevin, funny you should make the comment about your wife. Any time I have spare time my wife say's " I suppose your going to tinker with the Thunderbird" No dear, I'm going to do professtional preventive maintenance. She loves the Tbird and loves telling the public at car shows all about it. However it's left hand drive and will not drive it. She has driven it once in a sugar cane farm at 20 mph and that was it. Women, can't live with them, can't live without them. Well there both good girls
and I put up with both.
Kevin, from the relays to the headlights I ran higher gauge wiring. Including back across to the right hand headlight. I upgraded as much as possible. If you look at the wiring diagrams the original power runs to the left head light splice and then runs to the right so in actual fact you have four wires running in front of the radiator. Two for power to relays from batt and two for right head light( high and low beam) if you get my drift.
Regards, Stewie

[Rt.146]

Hi;

Will halogen headlights burn out the switch, what are the relays that are mentioned helping to reduce the load through the switch?

[Terry64HT]

You need two relays, one for the high beam circuit and one for the low. They are pretty easy to install since there is an ideal location behind the washer bag. It will certainly take the load off the headlight switch, and if yours is a 64, they are not available any more. You need a couple of Bosch-type relays, available from any automotive supply store, either 40 amp or 30/40 will do. Look for ones with a built-in resistor or consider putting a diode across the relay coil connections to prevent voltage spikes. You can get fresh 12 volt power from the starter solenoid, and cut the wires to the high an low beams just before they go through the panel to the driver's side lights. Attach the high and low beam wires to the coil on the relay (pin 86), ground the other side of the coil (pin 85), attach the new 12 volt power to the power in (pin 87) and connect the wires that go to the lights to the power out (pin 30).

You need a type 1 circuit breaker on the 12 volt power for protection. Type one is an autoreset, so if something happens, the lights will go off then come back on in a repeating cycle.


I've attached a photo (hopefully) of the relays and my fuse panel. The fuses are for fresh power for the windows, dash lights (rheostat on the headlight switch is shot) and a could of other things. The circuit breaker is the orange thing at the lower right of the panel.

Terry

64HT

[Rt.146]

OK, thanks, I will give it a try.

[RedBird64]

I put in Halogens.
They still suck.