White landau top vinyl

[Steverino]

Hi all,

Something of interest for those who may want originality... My car is a '62, silver mink with white landau top. I knew the car from the early '70's thru '98, when it still had the original top. At some point after that the top was replaced with a Levant pattern top by another owner. I purchased the car in 2008, and the replacement top was fine until recently, when the adhesive began to let go and create a large balloon at highway speeds.

I began considering what to do - replace the vinyl, or maybe paint the steel top white... I knew that it seems that the original "cobra" or long-grained vinyl was not available in white, only black - at least through the normal T-Bird houses. In my looking online, however I saw that SMS Auto Fabrics seemed to offer a material that might be close, so I contacted them via their site and explained what I was looking for.

In today's mail, this sample arrived. They claim it is the exact material. I am going from memory, but it sure looks close to me. They will sell by the yard, or as a pre-made top. What do you think?

If it IS pretty correct, then why do none of the usual suppliers offer it? There is a huge price difference for a premade top from SMS vs. the others.

[Steverino]

While I'm at it, I'll ask two more questions:
1. Anybody know the appropriate padding thickness under the top? I found an auto upholstery supply place that sells 1/8" closed cell foam...would that be right?
2. In reading the Assembly Manual (pg 2-4837), I see that the factory used a retainer strip in the drip side moulding to hold the vinyl down. The strip is held in place by 13 rivets, and then the channel is filled with sealer. Has anybody drilled out the rivets & replaced the top the "right way"? What sort of rivets did you use to replace the old ones? From the drawing they look to have a countersunk head...

Trying to figure out if I can successfully tackle this myself, or if I need to engage a professional. (Or maybe after I try to tackle it myself, I'll NEED a professional )

[stove]

I will just say this, and let the others accurately answer the rest...

You should definitely have them make the top. The seams are heat sealed, and most upholstery shops will either not know this is necessary, or will know, but have no way of doing it. Also SMS is a pretty decent company that has top notch stuff, that's always been correct. BUT be prepared to wait, and wait, and wait some more! No joke it may take 6 months for you to receive your order, but it WILL come. Also after you cough up the dough and wait the wait for the top, you probably are not going to be interested in attempting to install it yourself. It's VERY easy to mess up and ruin the top. My recommendation would be to do all the prep work (remove old top, trim, repair rust, paint, whatever) yourself, and do all the reassembly yourself as well. Good luck, and good call wanting to make the car right!

[Steverino]

Thanks for the feedback & recommendations. I'm taking my time figuring it out and since finding the OEM style vinyl I'm much more likely to re-do the top (vs paint) and also more likely to try to replicate the original installation methods. That also means finding a shop that will work with me on those... or do it myself. I totally get that it will be easy to mess it up. Will probably watch a bunch of videos to get a better idea of the process and go from there.

Oh, and on the countersunk rivets - I checked McMaster-Carr, and there are several different ones (both aluminum and steel) that look like they would fill the bill. Aluminum would be easier, but don't know if there would be any sort of dissimilar metal issues with the steel body...

[comrade]

I was impressed with the SMS offerings, thanks for posting such. They look like they have a vast selection of not only tops but specific interior packages. Fortunately or unfortunately, I am cursed with the Monaco edition, the colors and little interior tweaks are a pain to source.

[Steverino]

Well, I ordered my top from SMS yesterday. They said two weeks to make it... We shall see. Meanwhile I'm in the process of figuring out how to remove the old top, padding, and various fittings & trim pieces all the way around.

[nbaum]

I owned a 62 T-bird with a white landau top in the late 60's. Then I restored a 62 Landau about 6 years ago. Then I was able to find a NOS white landau top. Cost $1000. I had it installed with a 1/8" pad. It turned out perfect. Just like my original car. The sample picture you supplied of the material looks great. What did you have to pay to have the top made?

[Steverino]

Top price is $595, to my door for $630. I don't know if the material is NOS or repro, but it looks awfully close from my memory. I guess at the end of the day that's what matters, since the car isn't likely to ever be concours or judged.

I think the padding that I found on the car may have been original. It really wasn't in bad shape, all things considered. But I wanted to remove it & be sure I knew what was underneath. I saw 1/8" closed cell foam padding at an auto upholstery supply shop online, and am figuring that may be a suitable replacement.

What type of padding did you use?

[nbaum]

I used closed cell 1/8". They had 1/4" but the shop said don't use it. They were right the 1/8" was exactly like my original car.

[Steverino]

Just a quick update:

I removed most of my current vinyl top but still have some prep work left to do. Since it has been well beyond the two weeks initially quoted by SMS I thought I'd follow up. They direct these inquiries through an email channel, so I sent a message today. I received a response within a couple of hours saying that "the material had just gone to the assembly folks" and could they have 2-3 more weeks?

Since I have not been "on" this project, the additional time is not an issue for me, and I responded accordingly. If you are in a hurry, the earlier advice about SMS' time frame seems to be accurate... As for me, as long as they deliver a good product in the next month or so I won't be upset. Thanks @Stove for "managing" my expectations. But in this case I haven't had the time to devote to the work so it's all good.

Hope y'all have a good holiday weekend (at least those who are Stateside).

[cls1953]

A little more than a year and a half ago, I sent my bird to the car doc.... back around 08, I left the Bird out over night, and when I awoke the next morning, looking out the bedroom window, I witnessed a cat, using my vinyl roof as a claw tree...upon witnessing the destruction of the Bird's 2nd roof which had been replaced in 1987, the cat met a terminal fate, a 223 with a 3200 fps object from 40 yards... the dilemma that you faced, finding a top, was an issue that I too was hit with during my bird refreshing... you were lucky if you found white material... I acquired my black top from Bird's Nest, the top the cat tore up, seemed to be a bit thicker... but someone mentioned here on the forum about having the seams cooked and sealed, that is something else that is difficult to find also...so it is best to have the top made and shipped to you... I had the install done over in Tulsa, did a good job, with the exception that they failed to cover all of the painted surfaces, and the adhesive is a pain in the Haines to remove from their over spray...I didn't notice some of the over spray until some time later... the expense to install was about $400..remember, they have to remove interior head liner to get to the "S" Bars... pray that your headliner is not or has not turned brittle do to age... otherwise, you may also have to replace the headliner also...

[Steverino]

remember, they have to remove interior head liner to get to the "S" Bars... pray that your headliner is not or has not turned brittle do to age... otherwise, you may also have to replace the headliner also...

Well, for better or worser, my headliner is due for replacement anyway. Not brittle, but the stitching is going. So "in for a penny, in for a pound" as they say...

[comrade]

Good point here. I had to replace the S bars on my 63 but I was able to disassemble the trim and pull back the headliner far enough that I could reach in and get to the fasteners for the S bars. You need to be a bloody contortionist to get in there and on one side I recruited my wife to act as a second set of hands on the outside.

Note: the PO had replaced the top but for whatever reason put the old, cracked and faded S bars back on. If this is not in you plan to replace and they are borderline best replace them as well as why would you ant to do it again? If you decide to do such I will then tell the story of why I had to buy one of these bars twice......

[Steverino]

Thanks comrade! Yes, I'm planning to either replace my bars or have the originals rechromed. The emblems also have to be replaced as they are completely disintegrating. If I'm going to all this bother, I'm not doing it twice, and I would hope that what I'm doing now will last until I don't care anymore.

My curiosity is piqued regarding your story of replacing one twice. Please share - I'm always interested in learning from others.

[comrade]

Since you asked,

I ended up buying two sets of bars (If you need a RH one let me know as I have an extra.) The LH side went on just fine, no issues, but the repo bar for the RH was not square and it had a bit of a twist in it. I worked one side in a bit and tried to muscle the opposite end and the bar snapped in two just below the stronger, emblem assy.

Sooo, mad at my impatience (I do that a lot) I sucked it up and ordered another pair. A week later I found myself in the same spot with a bit of a twist in the RH bar I had just received and it was not square in the same way the previous one was.

Referencing my previous statement regarding impatience I did not want to return, etc. and lose another week. Armed with my recently gained knowledge of the strength of the bar and physics, I gingerly worked the bottom half of the bar in concert with the centerpiece whilst supporting the already inserted, and slightly twisted end. Once in, I replaced the backing nuts but tightened them evenly, a wee bit at a time. There is still a twist in the bar but with the bar tight against the vinyl top only I, and now everyone else who reads this will know.

Another tip, which you may already know. The backing nuts are self threading,given the lack of space to work in I pre-threaded the nuts on to the bars prior to install which made it easier to start the nuts for final installation.

Probably sorry you asked. :-)