Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

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gravelman
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by gravelman » Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:26 am

I'd rather not mess with the brace, however it's a much easier fix to fitting a dual bowl master cylinder.

Thanks,

mainstreetprod
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by mainstreetprod » Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:46 pm

66tanbird wrote:Mainstprod, could you tell me the name of the dual master cylinder that you purchased for your 1966 tbird. I would like to convert my 66 to a dual cylinder but BirdNest does not list any dual master cylinders for 1966. Thank you.

Sorry, got it wrong, it was Bob's Birdhouse that had the dual master. Link below:

http://store.bobsbirdhouse.com/cylinder ... p3733.aspx

gravelman
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by gravelman » Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:42 am

I know some including me didn't want the nylon look reservoir, however now after weighing my options for a dual bowl reservoir I think
this is a lot better choice than hacking up the tower brace.

http://store.bobsbirdhouse.com/cylinder ... p3733.aspx

gravelman
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by gravelman » Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:54 am

Interesting, when I went to Bob's T-Bird web site and entered 'dull brake reservoir' I get no results, when I entered 'master cylinder' only single reservoirs come up. I believe I followed up on this weeks ago with the same result. I've e-mailed Bob's to find out if he still carries them or?

Cliff Rankin
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by Cliff Rankin » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:01 am

My 64 I purchased recently has the disc brake
Master cylinder kit. I did some digging in its folder of papers. Dave@dropnstop.com.
Looks like the same basic kit offered around.
The clip that holds the cap is a tight fit between it and the brace. Looks like a small GM master cylinder
To me. I can't post a picture with my phone
Feel free to pm me and I can shoot you photos
Of the set up and paperwork.

stubbie
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by stubbie » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:38 pm

Hi gravelman have you seen these. Supposed to fit Thunderbirds as well.

http://www.rrs-online.com.au/66-70-tori ... inder.html

gravelman
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by gravelman » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:17 am

Hi Stubbie,

I don't see how that unit would fit under our dash, the stuff that's under there now will hardly fit... :-) I bought a used 2015 Corvette master cylinder and booster off of e-bay. Nice small package, it would be easy to make the changes to our mounting bracket, the question is whether the T-Bird linkage moves to much or too little to actuate the booster. The master cylinder is the dreaded nylon housing, but if it would fit and work I might close my eyes for the dual bowl reservoir. The other question is whether the Corvette booster is pure mechanical doesn't need any computer input to work. I'm going to check with a guy in town who would know the ins and outs of this before I get too deep into modifying something that isn't going to work.

Bob's Bird House got back to me with their dual bowl master cylinder that fits without any alterations to the tower brace. Their P/N: 105m

Mitch

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RedBird64
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by RedBird64 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:35 am

Just for comparison, here is my 73 Mustang dual MC and the 65 bracket setup. As you can see the fit is perfect.
Right now it's just mocked up while I wait for other parts. The internal dimensions of this MC are closer to the original MC on our cars than the late 60's units.
https://s5.postimg.org/gikuaah7r/IMG_0490.jpg

I urethaned the bare iron - I wonder how long it will last if I can keep the Dot 3 off it...

Scott
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 40 years - it was my first car. VTCI # 12013.

arizman2
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by arizman2 » Thu May 04, 2017 1:02 pm

RedBird64 wrote:Just for comparison, here is my 73 Mustang dual MC and the 65 bracket setup. As you can see the fit is perfect.
Right now it's just mocked up while I wait for other parts. The internal dimensions of this MC are closer to the original MC on our cars than the late 60's units.
https://s5.postimg.org/gikuaah7r/IMG_0490.jpg

I urethaned the bare iron - I wonder how long it will last if I can keep the Dot 3 off it...

Scott

Well I like this quite a bit. Could you please expand on your con version, for example the part number of the Master cylinder, where you obtained it and whatever else you had to purchase or do to make this fit/work? When you say "65 bracket setup" what does that mean? What bracket? Did you use the existing/stock '64 booster?

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RedBird64
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by RedBird64 » Thu May 04, 2017 5:56 pm

Hi there Arizona!
Here is the write-up that got me started http://www.tbirdranch.com/64dualmc.html.
I purchased the MC from RockAuto - It's a Raybestos P/N MC36398, New, 15/16 bore $30.89.
I no longer have this MC setup because I went to 65 T-Bird disc brakes, So I don't remember exactly what the sizes of the fittings are. You will have to adapt the 64's brass block to one of the MC outlets but parts are readily available.
A simple way to figure out the sizes is to get a cheapo MC bleeding kit (RockAuto sells them). It will have all the various size adapters and they are marked with sizes, making it very easy to go on-line and order the little brass adapters you need.

Because of my conversion, I gave the drum/drum double MC to fellow club member, PaulR. He might be able to shine some light on the parts needed.
Don't worry, it's easy to figure out and well worth the effort. Maybe he can tell us if I even used an adapter for the rear brake line or if it just mated up. If that's the case, a single adapter fitting for the block to mate to the MC and one to attach the brake light switch is all you might need.

EDIT, forgot to mention the bracket. When they went to a bigger dia. MC in 65 they used a different shock tower brace bracket (Ford called them "export braces"). This is the piece that bolts to the top of the shock tower. The actual brace attaches to it with two bolts. Here's a pic where you can see how it is offset to clear the MC:
Image


In case anyone needs the info, I used a 73 Mustang MC (shown above) with a 1" bore (same size bore used by 65~67 Birds with these brakes) for using 65~67 Kelsey-Hayes front brakes on my 64.

Scott
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 40 years - it was my first car. VTCI # 12013.

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losendos
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by losendos » Sat May 06, 2017 11:46 am

Scott, your valve covers look great! Where did you get them? Same for the red ignition wires!
-Patrick
1966 Town Hardtop
VTCI #12691
Past Bird: 1986 Turbo Coupe

arizman2
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by arizman2 » Sat May 06, 2017 1:37 pm

Excellent information on the "export bracket".

I will have access to a '65 that is being parted out next week and will look to see if I can snag it.

I am also going to see if I can get all the components to convert my '64 to the disk brakes. The owner says he is certain that I will need the spindles, not so sure about that from what I have read. In any event, he says he will sell me the entire brake setup including 5 wheels for $800 which seems reasonable.

gravelman
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by gravelman » Sat May 06, 2017 5:32 pm

Scott,

That is one tasty engine room. Did you make the tubing and hose clamps, they're very neat... How does your brakes work with the new double M/C? I've lost rack, is the M/C shown in the pix your current one, but it's the "73" Mustang for drum/drum? But it won't work for disc/disc?

Thanks,

Mitch

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RedBird64
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by RedBird64 » Thu May 18, 2017 11:51 am

gravelman wrote:Scott,

That is one tasty engine room. Did you make the tubing and hose clamps, they're very neat... How does your brakes work with the new double M/C? I've lost rack, is the M/C shown in the pix your current one, but it's the "73" Mustang for drum/drum? But it won't work for disc/disc?

Thanks,

Mitch
Sorry for the delay Mitch, I've been out of town.
Thanks for the compliment!
Post #10 above is indeed my current setup and it's working good. The link in another post is a pic of the drum/drum MC. You can tell the disc/drum because one end of the reservoir (disc) is bigger than the other. The Drum/Drum MC reservoirs are both the same size.
A Drum/Drum MC wont work for Disc/Drum because the discs require much more pressure.
The MC shown in the pic (Disc/Drum) is from a 69 Mustang with Disc/Drum (RockAuto/Raybestos P/N MC36251). It is the exact same size bore and stroke as the MC's used on 65~67 Thunderbirds with the Disc/Drum Kelsey Hayes setup.
The reasons I chose it was:
65 &66 used a single reservoir MC.
67 (which uses the exact same brakes as 65,66) used a dual MC but the lines exit the MC on the valve cover side and I had clearance issues.
Also, I am using the stock booster. The 65~67 used a booster of the same size but it's a "dual" diaphragm so it has about 20% more assist. I have not had any problem with insufficient boost. My stock 9" booster provides plenty of power. The brakes are easy to modulate, braking starts at a higher pedal position and I can lock it up easily without any pull.
Scott
Last edited by RedBird64 on Thu May 18, 2017 6:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 40 years - it was my first car. VTCI # 12013.

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RedBird64
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Re: Dual Bowl Master Cylinder...

Post by RedBird64 » Thu May 18, 2017 5:58 pm

losendos wrote:Scott, your valve covers look great! Where did you get them? Same for the red ignition wires!
The ign wires are just something from Summit - forget the brand.
Valve covers are a whole nother story! They started out as plain aluminum "Holley" VC's that I bought about 35 years ago. Kind of like these: https://www.ebay.com/p/?iid=112320487490&&&chn=ps
My body guy had the great idea of grinding the "HOLLEY" letters out of the middle (where the Bird emblem is now) and I found a reproduction set of the quarter panel emblems (for a Galaxie I believe) and we epoxied them on. Body guy painted the VC's, removed the paint from the finned area's and then clear coated the whole thing.
Then I had a pin stripe guy copy the script from the side of the car. Considering the letters are about as tall but there wasn't as much length as the side script takes, he did an amazing job of making it work.
Thank you for your comment!

Scott
1964 Coupe Wimbledon white/Rangoon Red w/black int. Owned for 40 years - it was my first car. VTCI # 12013.

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