Hydroboost Installation - 1962

This area is for posting questions/information concerning 1961-63 year Thunderbirds NO FOR SALE POSTINGS

Moderator: Wklink

User avatar
ozbird
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:45 am
Location: Australia

Hydroboost Installation - 1962

Post by ozbird »

Another Attempt to Improve our Brakes

After reading the recent thread and some from Novanutcase (John) etc on this forum and some others about improving the brakes of our classic cars, I decided it was time I improved my brakes. My car is a 62? Thunderbird Hardtop and a few years ago I replaced the front drums with discs off a 66? and replaced all the brake components including the booster, added dual master and new rear drums and linings.

This was not a bad solution but I was never happy with the braking and that came to the fore when I was driving my daughter to University one morning and as I was pulling up to turn left, she said, ?it?s not going to stop is it Dad??! Well it did stop but I was a bit worried too.

Back to the present, I have had the engine rebuilt (that is another saga!) and the booster only has about 14inches of vacuum after I put in a performance camshaft and a few other features. Needless to say the brakes are worse now and it?s like pressing on a brick to stop the car after the first application and there is not enough vacuum to enable the transmission modulator to function correctly.

So, I have bitten the bullet and purchased a new Bosch Hydroboost system from a US based supplier; this thread will be updated as the installation progresses with some information relevant to these cars. Some forums say to just go and purchase a used Hydroboost from a wrecker but you don?t know what you are going to get, if you want to cut costs just purchase a rebuilt unit with a warranty.

Here are some images of the kit I purchased from Power Brake Service located in Huntington Beach California, (www.powerbrakeservice.net).
Image
Image
Image

There are several companies located in the US that sell the Hydroboost systems however I chose to go with PBS for several reasons:
- have taken the time to create dozens of UTube videos about the many conversions they install or supply so you can see what is involved
- Matt responds quickly to emails and will always answer the phone during working hours and offer advice/support
- Have converted a few 62? Tbirds before so the brackets and fittings are known and will be shipped with an order.

As you can see, I have 2 braided lines and one rubber line; the braided lines are already setup with the correct fittings to install on the Hydroboost. The rubber return line you can order braided also but I think it should be fine as is. As a bonus I will end up with quite a few feet of braided line as the return high pressure line will only be a few feet long as it will come from the Hydroboost and into the high pressure port of the steering box, a very short length. In addition PBS supply fittings for the power steering pump outlet (high pressure side) to the Hydroboost and another from the Hydroboost High pressure outlet to the steering box. I will get the hoses measured up and ends installed by a local hose installation company. (ENZED here in Australia for example)

Stand by for the next installment of my upgrade, where I get my hands dirty and we see what is really involved!

Graeme :mrgreen:
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
User avatar
Rogue
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:49 pm
Location: Propwash 16Xray

Post by Rogue »

I'm also interested in this.....How much was the kit?
"Keep Cool, Little Thunderbird Ford"
User avatar
ozbird
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:45 am
Location: Australia

Post by ozbird »

Hi,

just check the site http://www.powerbrakeservice.net and the prices are pretty much there to see. Add extra if you require a master cylinder and/or hoses which I imagine you could purchase separately if you knew all the metric and imperial threads required!

Look, it's not cheap but being able to stop and avoid only one impact is worth it in my mind.

Graeme
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
User avatar
ozbird
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:45 am
Location: Australia

Post by ozbird »

Day 2

On the Saturday morning I removed the original booster and that was one of the worst jobs anyone has to do on these old cars! This took me a couple of hours to just remove the 4 nuts from the brake booster and this has to be done while on your back and in a very tight situation ? you MUST remove the driver?s seat too!

Everything is now out and we can see the mounting locations and decide the best way to proceed. The first thing to take note of is the supplied mounting plate has 4 bolt holes evenly spaced and the booster hole is right in the centre ? the Ford engineers back in ?62 decided to make all these holes off-centre so the plate will not fit as supplied. The other brackets in the kit may fit with some work but we decided that the booster and plate should fit flush against the firewall.

Image

My friend Mark has drawn up a design for a new plate (or may modify the existing plate) and I hope to get this back this week. I will post a diagram of the new plate so any readers out there can copy it if you wish. If you view the images you will note that the firewall has 2 strengthening braces right in line vertically with the bolt holes so the bracket will need to be adjusted to cater for those. In addition the bracket is too tall and it will foul with a small bolt at the bottom side so the height will be adjusted too.

While I had the parts out I thought about replacing the hydraulic stop light switch with an electric Ford switch activated by the brake pushrod. The forged brake pushrod has ?shoulders? which prevents the pushrod from mounting in the switch socket correctly but they can be filed off; also the hole in the switch needs to be enlarged. I finally decided that this is not going to work since the switch mounting clips foul on the brake arm itself and will soon be damaged.

Image


Stand by for my next post which will show the parts assembled.
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
novanutcase
Posts: 1814
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:58 am

Post by novanutcase »

:popcorn:

John
Professional Pic Whore

Image
User avatar
ozbird
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:45 am
Location: Australia

Post by ozbird »

Day 3

While I am waiting for the bracket to be tweaked I installed a vacuum tank to take care of the transmission modulator valve. I took the vacuum off the original fitting on the intake manifold straight to the tank and the smaller hose to the vacuum pipe behind the engine. The hoses should settle down once a bit of heat is generated.

This may be overkill but I had the tank so decided to use it; hopefully the engine will look nice surrounded by satin black! Picture quality is not great, iPhone seems to have focus on the alloy heads,,, sorry about that. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Image


Graeme
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
User avatar
ozbird
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:45 am
Location: Australia

Post by ozbird »

Report Day 4

Encountered our first hurdle tonight! Got the plate modified and it fitted up nicely after a bit of judicious filing. Mounted the hydroboost on to the plate and married it to the firewall but it would not sit flush to the firewall, we forgot about that damn huge nut on the hydroboost!

I am not keen at all in hacking the firewall to make the nut fit so now we will work on making a plate spaced out from the firewall as suggested by PBS. Mark is also making a wrench to install the nut, don?t know why yet but should have some more images over the weekend.

Graeme

:razz:
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
User avatar
ozbird
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:45 am
Location: Australia

Post by ozbird »

Day 5


Today Mark put in a good 4 hours making a new mounting plate and a spanner to install that huge nut I mentioned earlier. The plate looks very similar to those you see on web page images which are attached to Hydroboost units but the only difference is the one Mark made up is in mild steel rather than aluminium. (So that?s why they have a large plate attached to them!)

The spanner is essential since there is no way to tighten the nut without it since it is recessed into the plate. Both items are made of mild steel as mentioned and sandblasted but I plan to paint them tomorrow so the rust will be reduced/eliminated.

I have tried to photograph the plate and the spanner with that nut in the same shot. We still require the sides scalloped out of course and I have been busy with a file, fine tuning the fitment so it sits nicely into the firewall and flat. Also I have had to turn the booster 180 degrees and adjust the mounting lug for the simple reason the hose outlets were touching the steering shaft and shifter components.

The gas canister on the side is close to the valve cover/head but there looks like a good 3/4? clearance with no chance of damage even if the engine does move a bit. By turning the unit 180 degrees the hose inlet/outlets exit from the top of the Hydroboost which is fine since the braided lines will not look too ugly!

Tomorrow I will see how I go mounting it to the firewall, and getting brakes setup and bled.

Image

Image

Image


Graeme
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
User avatar
ozbird
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:45 am
Location: Australia

Post by ozbird »

Report 6


Today I did not achieve everything I had planned to, unfortunately the weather here has turned for the worse and it was so cold the painted bracket and wrench took ages to dry. I had to paint them since they were almost starting to flash rust, not a good look.

So I have installed the bracket to the firewall which took a bit of time to make sure the master cylinder was perfectly level side to side and fitted up the brake pushrod to the pedal. You may note in the images of the bracket that I pushed bolts through from the passenger compartment (Edit: sorry not visible in the attached image) and was able to tighten them from the engine bay, I used speed nuts which are good since they don?t need someone at the other end holding a wrench. I really hate removing the nuts from inside the passenger compartment so this is a winner!

By the time these items were completed, I had run out of light so I mocked up the braided lines and the rubber return lines to approximately where I think they should be routed. I will get them cut and ends installed next week and in the meantime will make up two new brake lines and bleed the brakes.

Image

Graeme
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
User avatar
ozbird
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:45 am
Location: Australia

Post by ozbird »

Day 6.5

Just a quick update today, I was lucky enough to catch a bad cold so could not get to work. Late in the day I felt I had enough energy to do something so made 2 brake lines from the new master cylinder to the existing outlets. I had to do that rather than bend the existing lines since the master cylinder lines are being swapped around, front dics to front outlet on master cylinder for example.

I used that great brake line line product, cunifer brake lines (http://store.fedhillusa.com/contact-us.aspx) which makes it a snap to bend and form the correct ends. I will put one section under the master cylinder and the other to the side, hope my measurements are close!

I have tried to purchase more of this brake line from the US but have not gotten anywhere, seems like they don't want to ship it out of the US? Just wanted to mention this in case someone outside the US reads this, I would suggest calling them rather than an email.

Image

Graeme
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
edpol
Posts: 1268
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 4:26 pm

Post by edpol »

You should be able to get it in Australia, no problem. Here's part of the article posted below:

Perhaps we get into a rut; we get used to doing something one way, and it's just too much trouble to change. Or maybe, despite superb international communi?cations, we are a little lax in getting information from 'the old country'. But whatever the reason, copper-nickel brake lines have been in use in England, Australia and more than likely in other countries with a heavy British influence.

Fred Anderson, an American citizen raised and educated in Australia, recently moved to the United States from the Sydney area and wondered why we weren't using Cunifer here as he had been doing in Australia.

http://www.brakeconnect.com/cunifer-brake-line
User avatar
ozbird
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:45 am
Location: Australia

Post by ozbird »

I have added a couple of images to show the new master cylinder attached to the hydroboost and the new cunifer brake lines mocked up.

The brake lines I had to re-do as I got the turns mixed up, I wanted to make the lines have the 360 degree turn but the area towards the shock tower did not leave me much room at all to be fancy.

One image you can see the gas reserve cylinder (small aluminium can) and how close it is to the valve cover. Also the front of the master cylinder right up to the shock tower. I guess 3/4" on the gas cylinder and the same on the master cylinder. This is why I wanted to get the hydroboost mounted up to the firewall without brackets or spacers, it would have been a nightmare otherwise.

The last image shows the Wilwood proportioning valve buried on the shock tower, it never improved brakes before but fingers crossed I can actually take advantage of it.

All the lines have been cut and terminated so tomorrow if not too cold I will attempt to finish off the installation and report back. If I do take it for a drive the brake testing will have to be minor since the front end alignment is needing further work.

Image

Image

Image
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
User avatar
ozbird
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:45 am
Location: Australia

Post by ozbird »

Almost completed the conversion, today installed the hydroboost fluid lines and return line tee'd into the original fluid line. The fluid from the hydroboost should have a straight shot into the reservoir and the original line comes in off the other line.

Everything fitted up well and I measured the correct lengths which is a first for me! Tomorrow or Monday I will be bleeding the brakes and the hydroboost and will see what it can do.

In the meantime I have added another image for your enjoyment. A bit of background here, the inner teflon lining of the high pressure lines melt at around 400 degrees f and if you know your Thunderbirds those lines are very close to the exhaust manifold and pipe. I could not risk that occurring as losing fluid would definately be dangerous. My local hose maker suggested I use a product that will act as heat barrier, it is call Fire Shield here in Australia. To prove it actually works they get you to stick your finger in a sample piece then turn their oxy torch on it - can't feel a thing they say....I did not try it myself but I trusted them!

Here is an image of the cover material just before I installed it; it stretches a lot so was able to put both the braided and standard rubber hose through it. Hopefully now I don't need to worry about heat affecting the conversion and if you are wondering its' pretty well hidden so you cannot spot it without looking for it.

Image


Graeme
::?
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
User avatar
ozbird
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:45 am
Location: Australia

Post by ozbird »

Final Day and Conversion Complete

Well guys, today was the test run with the new Hydroboost and my first word is WOW!

Just to bring you up to speed;

- bled the brakes all around and ended up with a nice firm pedal, this was before setup of the hydroboost
- had to re route the high pressure line as it was touching the exhaust rather than being close to it, could not risk it chafing. Also put a couple of cable ties on the braided lines as they seem a bit close to the hinge - I am hoping once they take a set they will stay like it?
- topped up the power steering reservoir and jacked up the front of car. Then I turned the wheels from side to side and finally turned the engine over for 5 revolutions (did not start it)
- I had to top up the reservoir a couple of times, each time I turned engine over the level dropped by more than half but at the end it settled down.
- started engine and let it run for 2 minutes while pressing brake pedal a little and looking for oil leaks.

All the above steps worked fine, no issues encountered so I took it for a slow drive around the block. The first thing noted was the brake pedal pulsated but stopped after a few seconds as did a squeal or two. The brakes worked perfectly, you don't have to press the pedal far before the brakes really pull the car up - I could have locked the wheels no problem. This might take some getting used to, I've never heard the wheels chirp on this car before!

As I mentioned last week, I need the wheel alignment done and after that I can setup the proportioning valve and see how it goes. I will also post up a video of the car in action.

As apprentice picture whore ( to novanutcase ) a couple more images are posted here. I have always wanted to replace my chrome valve covers with aluminium but was stymied by the booster and master cylinder being in the way - no longer!

Just threw in an image of the hydroboost side of engine too.

Graeme

Image

Image

[/b]
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
User avatar
bulletbird 1962
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:11 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

Post by bulletbird 1962 »

Good to see you terrorising the streets again Graeme.
(Petty amazing job on those Brakes) Keep up the good work.
Post Reply