C6 into 62

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ozbird
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C6 into 62

Post by ozbird »

Hi All,

thought I'd just add back some findings with the conversion from a MX (standard trans) to a C6 H/D transmission for our 62 and other model Thunderbirds.

The images below show the configuration of the MX (the shiny trans) vs. the C6 - everything except the rear mounting location seems to match up nicely. The drive shaft fits in with no changes and will just work!

What WILL NOT work is the exhaust on my car - the H pipe is setup right under the new transmission mounting point and I need need to get new pipes from the manifold to just before the axle. Maybe I can bend the pipes but I may also have another couple of mufflers installed to quiet the engine down a bit.

Over the next couple of months I will give you more details of what other features I need to work through, for example the speedo cable is a little short when clipped into the support on the body so may have to leave it floating. Otherwise have new cable made up, same with the emergency brake cable, might be that little bit short - you will find out in due course. :drinking:

Oh, and why a C6 you may ask, well this is my 4th and last engine rebuild for this car (don't ask) so it's going to be a 445 stroker setup.

Image

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Here is the modified transmission mount - note this is welded so just needs 3 bolts each side to mount it up.
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And the cross member for the transmission - modified to cater for the larger case
Image
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
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truesteve
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by truesteve »

Great choice! Did you modify the stock 62 mount, or is it a later model modified mount? I have to do the same mod to fit my beefed up C6 behind the new 396 CI (no stroker :sad: ) I can't find many details on the mount mod except for a few photos. Please post details if available

Image

I do have a front tranny crossmember/brace from my 63 parts car, but I haven't looked to see if the 61 even has a place to mount it as from what I can tell, they didn't come with them. I would also have to modify it for use with the C6 and to clear the FPA headers
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ozbird
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by ozbird »

Hi,

the rear mount I think is from a 66' Tbird - I will post images of a better quality later. The 62' mount is pretty much identical.

The brace for the front does not actually touch the transmission, it is a body flex type device, last image in my post. I think you will need to locate one of those or bending the frame will be on the cards. The 61' you mention will or should have the item you need.

Graeme
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
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El Leon
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by El Leon »

truesteve wrote:
I do have a front tranny crossmember/brace from my 63 parts car, but I haven't looked to see if the 61 even has a place to mount it as from what I can tell, they didn't come with them. I would also have to modify it for use with the C6 and to clear the FPA headers
Speaking from experience (aka: Last weekend) installing a 390 with FPA headers, you will need to have somebody very brave to lay under the car who wants to shimmy in the cross-brace while it is on the hoist and before the motor is bolted in. You will NOT be able to install that cross brace if you have FPA headers bolted up to the block and the motor is installed. On the flip side, this will also make removal of the block/tranny more difficult with FPA headers. The price you pay for power!

As I anticipate the cruise-o blowing up within a year or two as a result of the power that will be thrown at it from the built motor, i'll properly install this brace at that time.
Stirling Moss once said “There are two things no man will admit he cannot do well: drive and make love.”

But then Albert Einstein replied, “Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.”
bbogue
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by bbogue »

For potential future work, does anyone know what/if specific year C6's work with the 61-63 Birds? Thanks.
Past owner 1961 Thunderbird - Heritage Burgundy Metallic

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ozbird
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by ozbird »

Hi,

all years will physically fit with the main (and only, as far a I know) difference being the shift pattern. 66' C6 shifts were PRN <small dot> <big dot> 1 while later versions are PRND2L or PRND21. If you install a later build and drive on the big green dot you will blow the trans, in theory of course you would not rev the engine that high.

I have a 66 C6 to intall so will update this thread as time goes by.

thanks
Graeme
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
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61Okie
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by 61Okie »

What would you like to know? I run one behind my 428CJ. It is a bolt-in with 2 simple extensions to the stock cross member and allow for change to center mount. Drive shaft works just fine. Speedo cable will fit. There are only two configs (except 66 T-bird valve body) Console shift or Column shift. You want column shift. Kick down linkage will work. You'll need to modify the attach point at the shift linkage attach point .(you'll see) Stock gear shift indicator will work fine. Your "Drive" location will be the only change. It moves over toward N about a 1/8". I simply put a new white dot with a little white paint on the tip of a toothpick.
1916 - I'm going to see a man about a Horse...
2016 - I'm going to see a man about some Horsepower...
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ozbird
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by ozbird »

Hi Okie,

thanks for asking - in fact I found exactly what you point out in the response here is spot on. I have a change of plan, will be getting a TransGo shift kit installed in my existing MX transmission as I have been told doing that will raise the line pressure and a few other things and will preserve the life of it.

The TransGo kit is no longer made with a special steel plate, these days you can buy the kit but without the plate. The kit I have ordered is NOS and is coming from the US, will have my transmission guy install it for me and keep the C6 for a rainy day. Not the end of the world, the MX is only recently rebuilt with a few thousand miles on it. I did find some hairline cracks in the case but it was just the parting lines when it was cast...we hope!

Here are a few teaser images, will post on the other thread about the headers but for now, here is where I am at.

Image

Image

Graeme
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
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61Okie
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by 61Okie »

Cheers from Oklahoma !!
The Trans-Go kit for the MX Is a very nice upgrade. I installed in mine when I still had the 390 in the car. You will like the firmer more precise shifts. Further fine tuning of shifts can be done by changing the line pressure via adjusting the screw at the back of the modulator valve. The old MX isn't bad at all for a bone stock or mildly modified 390. Here is where the problem comes in--- Their is Very limited aftermarket support.
A stock MX uses a torque converter with a stall speed of 600rpm. This in itself limits anything other than stock or very mild camshaft. It simply won't idle in gear. That fact for me is the very reason to pursue the C6.The availability to choose "looser" stall speed converters allows the car to idle in gear with a larger camshaft. Mine idles at 900 in gear/1000 in neutral. (11" 2200 stall speed converter)
1916 - I'm going to see a man about a Horse...
2016 - I'm going to see a man about some Horsepower...
bbogue
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by bbogue »

MX stall speed "600 rpms." Really? Are you sure? My 61 shop manual says 1800-2000 rpm stall. My engine with mild upgrades (255DEH cam, headers and roller rockers) idles fine at 650-700 rpms with my MX tranny. Maybe 100 rpms less in gear. What am I missing?
Also, I have read that the heavier duty C6 takes more power to turn. Observations?
Thanks.

Bill
Past owner 1961 Thunderbird - Heritage Burgundy Metallic

If there are no dogs in heaven, send me where they went. - Will Rogers
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61Okie
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by 61Okie »

Bill, Good Catch! I meant a converter with a stall allowing a 600 rpm idle.
You can check you own stall at anytime. Just have it warmed up with a accurate tach and brake hold it at wide open throttle, take the quick reading. The MX was the predecessor to the FMX, then the C4. C4 was most always behind lower torque engine packages. The C6 is bulletproof that why it was always used behind Ford Highest HP & Torque engines including the 7.3 Diesel. For us it mates well with little modifications. Plus there are No late model overdrive automatic with the FE bellhousing bolt pattern. The C6 is not the most efficient trans for sure.
Your 255DEH camshaft is listed as a RV/Towing mild cam just as I was speaking of. (202/212 duration @.050) A great choice for a stock torque converter.
My 428CJ makes 447HP and the cam is the 427/425 solid lifter (245/245 duration @.050). The MX nor the Converter would handle it.
1916 - I'm going to see a man about a Horse...
2016 - I'm going to see a man about some Horsepower...
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ozbird
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by ozbird »

Hi,

interesting, my cam specs are 221/221 @ .050", 112LSA/106ICL, .563/.563"

When in the original engine it was quite ok and have been told that with a stroker it will be very mild, should idle like a charm. Yet to be seen and I will still go down the MX path, should make for good reading.

thanks guys,

Graeme
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
bbogue
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by bbogue »

61Okie wrote:My 428CJ makes 447HP and the cam is the 427/425 solid lifter (245/245 duration @.050). The MX nor the Converter would handle it.
Agreed. That's a beast of an engine! Envy, envy, envy...

I'll be interested to hear how Graeme's MX works out behind his stroker. Envy, envy, envy.

Bill
Past owner 1961 Thunderbird - Heritage Burgundy Metallic

If there are no dogs in heaven, send me where they went. - Will Rogers
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ozbird
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by ozbird »

Update..

slow progress on the MX installation - got the shift kit from the US but trans shop is running behind. Then he calls me in to check it out and looks like there are one or two bands that are shedding material - so partial rebuild.

I will change the routing of the transmission lines as well, the drivers side header dumps right down in amongst piping and the works. I am going to take the lines on the passenger side and hopefully make it easier to setup the exhaust.

Getting there!!

Graeme
1962 Hardtop - in Melbourne, Australia
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Alan H. Tast
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Re: C6 into 62

Post by Alan H. Tast »

ozbird wrote:Update..

slow progress on the MX installation - got the shift kit from the US but trans shop is running behind. Then he calls me in to check it out and looks like there are one or two bands that are shedding material - so partial rebuild.

I will change the routing of the transmission lines as well, the drivers side header dumps right down in amongst piping and the works. I am going to take the lines on the passenger side and hopefully make it easier to setup the exhaust.

Getting there!!

Graeme
See recent posting re. transmission cooling line routing and why it changed from passenger side in '61 to driver's side in '62. You might want to consider wrapping line with heat-resistant material or fabricating a heat shield instead.
Alan H. Tast, AIA
Technical Director/Past President,
Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
1963 Hardtop & 1963 Sports Roadster
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