Cooling

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mheffernan
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:50 pm

Re: Cooling

Post by mheffernan »

Trouble? I thought I was having "fun!" Fortunately, my wife loves the convertible so I get to go a little crazy with it. At least I have found a local guy who can deal with the top; I'll continue to try different things with the cooling.
Thanks
Mike
stubbie
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: Cooling

Post by stubbie »

I don't think pulling the thermostat out would help as all that does is give you a constant flow of water that doesn't get any chance to cool properly. The idea of having a thermostat as you know is to regulate the supply of water as needed and that gives the water in the radiator a chance to cool when the thermostat shuts or slows down supply. I'm not saying anyone is a bad driver nor am I trying to be flippant, but is it driving habits that cause overheating in heavy traffic? Do you leave sufficient space between your vehicle and the car in front of you when parked at traffic lights? Do you tailgate when moving at slower speeds? All these things can cause a lack of air movement through the radiator and add to overheating. (Just a thought)
mheffernan
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:50 pm

Re: Cooling

Post by mheffernan »

Hi stubble. I'm not proposing removing the stat only the fan clutch. As I said earlier my 62 coupe (driven in the same LA traffic) had no such problems at all. Removing the fan clutch and using a seven blade fan were suggested by a real experienced and popular mechanic.
Mike
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61Okie
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:21 pm
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma

Re: Cooling

Post by 61Okie »

Bill,
Been off the forum for a while. You are right on with manifold vacuum to the advance and working total timing. I'll say the reproduction clutch fans from our vendors are marginal at best. The factory a/c cars have a very tight clearance and the repro units are all we can use. I *hit canned mine, ate the $75 as experience and went with a direct drive 7-blade metal flex fan still utilizing our factory A/C shroud. It moves a lot of Air !!
1916 - I'm going to see a man about a Horse...
2016 - I'm going to see a man about some Horsepower...
bbogue
Posts: 850
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:04 am

Re: Cooling

Post by bbogue »

61Okie, Hi.
Manifold vacuum for vacuum advance still works for me. I haven't installed my pusher fan yet...working on other things. Cooler weather made it less pressing. FYI, I installed a thinner fan spacer to move my fan half in - half out of the shroud to pull more air. Chasing a misfire at idle, I've repaired vacuum leaks at the carb and, most recently, improved the grounding between the Pertronix Ignitor module and the battery. Both of these should also help with cooling (richer burn and much less misfire). My engine still doesn't idle as slick as I would like but it's much better and I think it will take a new carb to cure it completely. The car is very driveable so that's what I'm gonna do!

Bill
Past owner 1961 Thunderbird - Heritage Burgundy Metallic

If there are no dogs in heaven, send me where they went. - Will Rogers
bbogue
Posts: 850
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:04 am

Re: Cooling

Post by bbogue »

Update. I just completed installation of a Spal 16" pusher fan, operated by a relay which is triggered by a toggle switch. Placement of the switch is still pending. I have it hanging on a lanyard from a dash knob temporarily. Depending on how much the fan is needed over the next month or so, I will install the toggle switch more permanently or trigger the fan automatically with a thermal switch. Although today was not excessively warm (60's), when I turned on the fan it made a difference right away while sitting at a stoplight. In the driveway I let the car idle for a few minutes and it never got over 175F. I'm very pleased.

Bill

Added by edit. FWIW, I am now using a 165F thermostat.
Past owner 1961 Thunderbird - Heritage Burgundy Metallic

If there are no dogs in heaven, send me where they went. - Will Rogers
allanmcnab
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:40 pm

Re: Cooling

Post by allanmcnab »

Is there a way to tell what the temp is on the gauge? I have a 62 and mine only reads hot and cold. Does the center of the gauge = 165F, and 3/4 = 185 for instance? I worry about overheating, but really have no idea how close I am.
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55Greg&Amy
Posts: 1195
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:43 am

Re: Cooling

Post by 55Greg&Amy »

Best way to calibrate your gauge is to get the vehicle up to operating temperature then use an infrared thermometer to check the temperature at the water outlet/thermostat housing.
Greg Minnich
Kendallville, IN
bbogue
Posts: 850
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:04 am

Re: Cooling

Post by bbogue »

55Greg&Amy wrote:Best way to calibrate your gauge is to get the vehicle up to operating temperature then use an infrared thermometer to check the temperature at the water outlet/thermostat housing.
Agreed. My temp gauge never went past 1/4 until I replaced the instrument voltage regular with an electronic one from eBay which I set at about 5 volts per the shop manual. The way the gauge moves is affected by the voltage. Anyway, when I replaced the IVR, the temp gauge began to hang out around middle of the scale when the engine was warm and my fuel gauge became more reliable. I have aftermarket gauges now and 185 corresponds to somewhere near the middle of the old gauge, but I don't trust it. I look at the aftermarket gauge frequently. Good luck.

Bill
Past owner 1961 Thunderbird - Heritage Burgundy Metallic

If there are no dogs in heaven, send me where they went. - Will Rogers
allanmcnab
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:40 pm

Re: Cooling

Post by allanmcnab »

thanks guys
novanutcase
Posts: 1814
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:58 am

Re: Cooling

Post by novanutcase »

55Greg&Amy wrote:Best way to calibrate your gauge is to get the vehicle up to operating temperature then use an infrared thermometer to check the temperature at the water outlet/thermostat housing.
This^^^

I would monitor the temp with the infrared thermometer from cold start to operating temp and make hash marks that you can use to determine what the temp is. If it was me I'd probably take apart the gauge and mark them on the face itself but some would not want to do that to keep it original. Your call.

John
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allanmcnab
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Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:40 pm

Re: Cooling

Post by allanmcnab »

thanks john, I am looking for a driver, not a concours d'elegance
novanutcase
Posts: 1814
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:58 am

Re: Cooling

Post by novanutcase »

allanmcnab wrote:thanks john, I am looking for a driver, not a concours d'elegance
Just an idea, but maybe use stickers for the hash marks in case you want to remove them later.

John
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bbogue
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Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:04 am

Re: Cooling

Post by bbogue »

Another update.

When I bought my 61 I decided not to add A/C since I wouldn't use it much on the "blue bird" days when my car would leave the garage. This plan was reinforced by the necessary engine work...the A/C would have been a bothersome interference. But then I broke my blue bird day rule recently and drove the car on a 150 mile roundtrip on a 95F degree day during which we got stuck in traffic. My wife almost melted! And this is a lady who likes our home A/C at 80! So..."blue bird" days (at least with my wife aboard) now excludes days when the temps are over 85F.

As it relates to this thread, while sitting in traffic, I watched with concern as the water temperature climbed to over 210F even with my auxiliary pusher fan running. It cooled down rapidly to 185-190F once I was able to return to cruising speed. My concern is still the temperature at low rpms. So, work continues to make my engine cool itself better. My radiator is a new USRadiator high efficiency model so it should have sufficient capacity, I reasoned. I also have an auxiliary 16" Spal pusher fan and 6-blade fixed fan. My next step, I reasoned, should be to improve coolant flow. I installed a 160F Milodon high-flow thermostat to reduce a major restriction. The opening on this thermostat is much greater than my old Gates 160F Superstat. I tested both stats in hot water and found them to operate similarly, beginning to open a little over 160F and fully open by 180F. While I was at it I also tweaked the fit of my fan shroud. The first test, on a 90F day demonstrated a slight reduction in water temp cruising (low 180's) and max at idle (210). This is probably fine but in my quest to make this car as good as I can and feed my addiction to throwing $ into this car, I'm not done yet.

My next planned effort to improve cooling is to improve coolant flow further by replacing the water pump. The current pump is only 2 years old, the standard pump, purchased from a TBird supplier. The new pump will be a high-flow Flow Kooler 1642e and will probably go in this fall or winter.

Best regards to all.

Bill
Past owner 1961 Thunderbird - Heritage Burgundy Metallic

If there are no dogs in heaven, send me where they went. - Will Rogers
RAVEN
Posts: 1851
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Cooling

Post by RAVEN »

To All; a tid bit of info I came across, in my resto of my long term friend "RAVEN". After many years of enjoyment and shows I felt it necessary to repaint the girl, plus other things.
The motor ran strong, had no oil issues, and was not in need of any internal touchups. I did extract the motor to clean up and redo the compartment, and since it was out, why not do a preventive check up.
I found 3 small weeps off the frost plugs, so thought, lets go: open it up alittle more. Found no major issues, do to fact of installing a high volume oil pump 20 odd years ago. (the savior). BUT I did find 50 years of mud/sludge/rust, or what ever is collected, in that time frame, within the water jackets. To the point that when I removed the frost plugs, the "MUD" level was above the top of the plugs and packed. This is about 50% of the water jacket of the cylinders. NOTE: I have flushed the engine frequently (every 3 to 4 years) over the past 30+ years. Plus no major cooling issues, unless stopped dead in traffic.
The babies heart got a full check up and is in better shape than mine!
IF you have cooling issues, think about the "MUD" you may have; and it can be said that a standard flush, will not remove the heavy/thick crap in the bottom of the motor jacket area.
Any and all extra equipment is only hiding the problem not solving it. New rads, water pumps, pulley sizes, thermostats and any other items, only reduce the problem, for a while. BUT will not solve it.
IF the car ran cool in 1964/5/6 then why not now, FORD engineers did their heat studies, and "delta" T's and had no cooling issues, so we should too.

My 2 cents worth, and in Canada, we no longer have pennies.

Wally K
CDN Member since 1975 #2086
Flock: 1964 Landau Original Family Owned
1964 Sr Convertible "RAVEN"
Past: 2003 Blk Lab "RAVEN" "RIP"Nov 15/17
1964 Lincoln vin4Y86N00007
1964 Red Convertible
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